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Brexit fooked?

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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 19:07 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Brexit fooked? Reply with quote
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news

Fuck!
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 19:15 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
She could have a vote tomorrow and pass article 50, if remainers want to hold back brexit they will have to prepare to be booted from their seat
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doggone
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
It only means they now have to debate it in Parliament rather than taking the result as mandate to proceed
Even with the fish woman stirring things behind scenes the debate ought to be back the result.
Parliament voted resoundingly to have the referendum beforehand.
There was no suggestion the result was somehow advisory until they were shocked it wasn't what was required.

Last edited by doggone on 19:29 - 03 Nov 2016; edited 1 time in total
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Itchy
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Doesn't matter.

If politicians vote no then they're going to be out on their bums.

As if the referendum results were translated into a general election it would be 420+ seats.

So it would be electoral suicide if they choose to ignore the vote.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisapplegate/why-a-pro-eu-party-could-be-screwed-in-the-next-election?utm_term=.vgvYXxG5q#.djyM31x29
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 19:47 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:
She could have a vote tomorrow and pass article 50, if remainers want to hold back brexit they will have to prepare to be booted from their seat


Itchy wrote:
Doesn't matter.

If politicians vote no then they're going to be out on their bums.

As if the referendum results were translated into a general election it would be 420+ seats.

So it would be electoral suicide if they choose to ignore the vote.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisapplegate/why-a-pro-eu-party-could-be-screwed-in-the-next-election?utm_term=.vgvYXxG5q#.djyM31x29


Should the HOC vote against brexit, they'll be pissing off the 37% of the electorate, who voted OUT!
Should the HOC vote for brexit they'll be pissing off the 63% of the electorate who voted IN or CBA!
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suntan Sid wrote:
Should the HOC vote for brexit they'll be pissing off the 63% of the electorate who voted IN or CBA!

Why would, or should, Members of Parliament worry about pissing off people who can't be arsed to vote?
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suntan Sid wrote:
who voted IN or CBA!

Those who CBA to turn up don't come into it.

If 27.8% of the electorate didn't want to vote then that's their look out.

More people voting to leave than to remain is pretty straight forward really. Rolling Eyes
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ScaredyCat
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Three. Line. Whip.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rogerborg was right, he's our better.
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cdlxxvi
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
The question of "how I, a Remain-leaning MP, should vote?" is an interesting one.


Is the constituency in the United Kingdom of Wales and Most of England?

Is the UKIP candidate close in the polls?

Are the constituents likely to vote based on the single Brexit issue? Common sense says no, but the referendum campaign proved people's vision can be successfully tunnelled.

Do I feel duty of care towards my constituents? As a parent, do I let my toddlers have their democratic choice of chocolate and crisps for dinner?
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Suntan Sid
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PostPosted: 21:32 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
More people voting to leave than to remain is pretty straight forward really. Rolling Eyes


I presume you're talking about what, in any other political circumstance, would be considered a tiny majority!

Anyway, we shall see!
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:33 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
A tiny majority is still a majority.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:
The question of "how I, a Remain-leaning MP, should vote?" is an interesting one.... Do I feel a duty of care towards my constituents? As a parent, do I let my toddlers have their democratic choice of chocolate and crisps for dinner?


That's a painful analogy. Hopefully when they're grown up you'll let "the children" decide for themselves and respect their decision.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Suntan Sid wrote:
Should the HOC vote for brexit they'll be pissing off the 63% of the electorate who voted IN or CBA!


The significant minority who CBA to vote in a single-issue referendum aren't likely to vote in a general election either, so why would MPs care?
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
The question of "how I, a Remain-leaning MP, should vote?" is an interesting one.... Do I feel a duty of care towards my constituents? As a parent, do I let my toddlers have their democratic choice of chocolate and crisps for dinner?


That's a painful analogy. Hopefully when they're grown up you'll let "the children" decide for themselves and respect their decision.


The whole "voters are stupid" rhetoric is hilarious.

On one hand we have people claiming that this is a democracy, our father's father's fathers fought for the right to vote, political choice is better than the alternative super-evil communist one-party system, bla bla, then the next thing we know that very same democracy is being handwaved away with claims that voters really ought not to get involved in the running of their country anyway!
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 21:59 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Lord Percy wrote:


The whole "voters are stupid" rhetoric is hilarious.

On one hand we have people claiming that this is a democracy, our father's father's fathers fought for the right to vote, political choice is better than the alternative super-evil communist one-party system, bla bla, then the next thing we know that very same democracy is being handwaved away with claims that voters really ought not to get involved in the running of their country anyway!


It's asif there wasn't some massive campaign before the 23rd of june, from both sides, giving every eventuality of staying/ leaving!

and that we didn't have the internet to do any research either! how thick do they think people are
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Mawsley
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
The question of "how I, a Remain-leaning MP, should vote?" is an interesting one.... Do I feel a duty of care towards my constituents? As a parent, do I let my toddlers have their democratic choice of chocolate and crisps for dinner?


That's a painful analogy. Hopefully when they're grown up you'll let "the children" decide for themselves and respect their decision.


What about your kids who adore pizza but thought they fancied a kebab - but then, in the kebab shop, look utterly miserable at the the prospect offered to them because they all have to have one type of kebab and half of them don't like cheeky pickles and chilli sauce?
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cdlxxvi
Nearly there...



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PostPosted: 22:18 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
cdlxxvi wrote:
The question of "how I, a Remain-leaning MP, should vote?" is an interesting one.... Do I feel a duty of care towards my constituents? As a parent, do I let my toddlers have their democratic choice of chocolate and crisps for dinner?


That's a painful analogy. Hopefully when they're grown up you'll let "the children" decide for themselves and respect their decision.


The analogy is slightly exaggerated for rhetorical purposes, but its essence is sound. I suspect an average voter's grasp of economy, sociology and international relations is on par with an average 10 years old's understanding of healthy nutrition.

Thankfully we tend to be aware of our limitations and hire professionals to do jobs we're not qualified for. Indirect democracy works a bit like that; we choose the representatives to deliver us what we want, but also count on them to save us if what we want is a train wreck.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mawsley wrote:
What about your kids who adore pizza but thought they fancied a kebab - but then, in the kebab shop, look utterly miserable at the the prospect offered to them because they all have to have one type of kebab and half of them don't like cheeky pickles and chilli sauce?


Hmmm... I ticked the thick, working class racist box. Razz I can't be expected to understand such an analogy. Oh, but wait... I'll tell them life is like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get... but you did get chocolate.

cdlxxvi wrote:
I suspect an average voter's grasp of economy, sociology and international relations is on par with an average 10 years old's understanding of healthy nutrition.


I suspect the average economist's understanding is on a par with the same, but they're always spot on after the event. Shame that's no use to anyone.

cdlxxvi wrote:
Thankfully we tend to be aware of our limitations and hire professionals to do jobs we're not qualified for. Indirect democracy works a bit like that; we choose the representatives to deliver us what we want, but also count on them to save us if what we want is a train wreck.


But our hopeless MPs couldn't or wouldn't decide on in or out so they turned to the voters. There is no point in them pressing for "not-Brexit" now. Brexit doesnt mean a train wreck, nor do we require your imagined belated salvation from the previously indecisive.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
cdlxxvi wrote:

The analogy is slightly exaggerated for rhetorical purposes, but its essence is sound. I suspect an average voter's grasp of economy, sociology and international relations is on par with an average 10 years old's understanding of healthy nutrition.

Thankfully we tend to be aware of our limitations and hire professionals to do jobs we're not qualified for. Indirect democracy works a bit like that; we choose the representatives to deliver us what we want, but also count on them to save us if what we want is a train wreck.


Is that really what you think a democracy should be? Sounds more like a dictatorship. Once in they have the authority to do whatever.
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Mawsley
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Hmmm... I ticked the thick, working class racist box. Razz I can't be expected to understand such an analogy.

I have other analogies. Unfortunately they all involve pizza.

My version of Brexit would be to force everybody to eat pizza with anchovies. Anchovies rock and I'll not listen to anybody who says different.

Actually this isn't an analogy, this is my Friday night every week.
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gorillaonabik...
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Joined: 31 Jul 2011
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PostPosted: 22:52 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
So... next move is an appeal. Then if May loses that, she could go to the European Court...

Hmmh, hold on a second...

If she decides to lose the appeal, then it will go to a vote which I presume she will lose followed by a general. She is aiming to win the general as has a massive lead in the polls.

What I want to know is what her move is after that. She's several steps ahead of all of us so what's her plan?
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Robby
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
Assuming it does go to a parliamentary vote, it will be interesting to see if:
1. Labour can pull their shit together and start acting like an opposition party.
2. Any MPs have the balls to vote remain and potentially lose the next election.
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cdlxxvi
Nearly there...



Joined: 13 Feb 2012
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 03 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote
jnw010 wrote:

Is that really what you think a democracy should be? Sounds more like a dictatorship. Once in they have the authority to do whatever.

They cannot easily "do whatever" - separation of powers and terms of offices make that difficult.
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