DMT

[Robster]

Hi all,

Bit of an odd one this, not posted here for a while as i've not wanted to and not found time, but here goes.

TLDR: Has anyone here had any useful life experience with LSD, Ayahuasca, Shrooms etc. ? I'm considering doing a ritual in a safe legal environment and would like some advice/criticism about it.

Right. Here's the long version:

I've suffered from depression, low self esteem, anxiety, anger management issues, compulsive addictive behaviour etc. etc. for most of my adult life. Most of the time I keep it under wraps through being sociable, exercising, expensive therapy, eating healthy and what not but depression is still a big issue for me and I feel it is stopping me reaching my full potential in life.

Recently i've stopped riding due to back pain, don't find any enjoyment in life at the moment even though i've got things happening in my life to look forward to, I can't seem to see the good. I have lost most of my motivation to better myself currently.

I have tried prescription anti-depressants such as Citalopram in the past and not got on with them - my brother's been hooked on them for years as he suffers from similar issues to me (OCD, anxiety and depression) plus the almost complete loss of libido is something i'm not prepared to go through again - I just don't like taking pills either.

I am partial to a bit of cannabis, but I find it becoming habitual and another vice, such as smoking, drinking and pornography, and its bloody expensive and illegal to boot.

I came across this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2016/may/17/magic-mushrooms-lift-severe-depression-in-clinical-trial

Promising stuff, I also started reading about Ayahuasca rituals in Peru/Mexico etc. and some of the testimonials from people who have done them are promising, the more I read the more I get drawn towards this.

I am not expecting a 'cure all' pill, but I feel drawn towards this as A: Psychadelic experiences are something i've always wanted to try and B: if it at least helps me gain a better understanding - even a little, how the hell my brain works then it's surely worth a shot?

I am aware of the risks involved, and would be attending a 'ritual' headed by experienced psychonauts/shamans whatever you want to call them.

I am an open minded individual, have dabbled with some hard drugs in the past such as ecstacy and MDMA - been there done that. I'm not after a recreational high but want to push the boundaries of consciousness and hopefully attain 'ego death' This is the mindset i'm in currently.

I'm not 100% sure I want to go through with this though, but my options are getting fewer and fewer. I've made progress with my depression; lost three stone this year and mostly kept it off, took up boxing and weight lifting, but depression keeps cropping up and stopping me doing things and I end up where I started more often than not.

I read about a spiritual retreat in holland that uses something called Psilohuasca (brew made from mushrooms and MAOI), as well as a smokeable version of DMT (woohoo!) I figured I could do without the 'purging' associated with Ayahuasca (puking up roots and bits of plants for hours on end doesn't sound too thrilling to me)

I realise you have to be in a decent mental state beforehand, but even a bad trip may be beneficial for me, as supposedly DMT makes you confront your issues at face value.

So, any thoughts? any first hand experiences about it? any arguments against it?

Ta

Rob
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Up the bum no babies.

[MarJay]

I don't have any first hand experience of this, but someone I know does, and he says that you need to do it when you're young and have no cares in the world. If you do it when you've got worries and responsibilities it can screw you up. He makes a lot of sense, but as I said, I've got no first hand experience of it.
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British beauty: Triumph Street Triple R; Loony stroker: KR1S; Track fun: GSXR750 L1; Commuter Missile: GSX-S1000F; Cheap project: CBR900RR FireBlade
Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[smegballs]

I'd have to err on the side of caution and advise people with pre-existing mental health problems to not do psychedelics.

I'll say it could sort you out, it could fuck you up worse than you are now. Especially with higher doses (which you need if ego death is the goal) it's a bit of a make or break deal. You either have the mental resources to deal with it or you don't; and if you are found wanting it's not unheard of that it will cause/exacerbate mental problems.

Never had a "bad trip" but I've had times that are the mental equivalent of being cooped up on a 12 hr megabus journey crammed into a tiny seat - highly uncomfortable. Over time I've developed the willpower/control to be able to tell my brain to stop being a dick and thinking about dark shit. Imo if you trip without the ability to say "this blatantly isn't real, stop being a cock - we're here to have fun" to your brain/subconscious then you have a high risk of shit going awry.

[haroman666]

A friend of mine suffered from similar anxiety and depression issues.

We took out to a rave and she agreed to try MDMA.
For a short period (Year or so) she overcame a few hurdles that life had thrown in her way. It gave a sort of "Yeah, you know what... fuck it" mindset. And she really improved generally.

However now, she's not so into doing it any more. Had a couple of experiences where she wigged out and had to go home and sleep it off.
She's still in a better way than she ever was, but not 100%.

I'd say that drugs help in various ways. I myself find that if i've been getting down then a fucking good party sorts me out and helps me realise that life doesn't have to be so serious. But "Magic Mushrooms lift severe depression" is a VERY bold statement. It may help to some degree, but not lift it entirely.

I've of the opinion that despite how hard it is to get out of depressive slumps, life is what you make it. And you need to dig deep to get the motivation to put yourself into elated situations (Being social, or enjoying your own company, appreciating the world for what it is etc).

If you think a ritualistic experience might help then by all means go for it. But the cheaper option (if you have the social contacts) would be to get a few mates, a bag of whatever poison you choose and just have a ball.
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The mistresses: 2000 Honda CBR600f, 2000 Honda VTR1000

[Saraya]

As someone who dabbled with all sorts in my younger years – I say, don’t do it.
Have you ever had a REALLY bad ‘come down’ after an E? It sucks, but in a day or so, you’re over it.
Imagine your worst come down and multiply it by 100. The difference with hallucinogens is that bad trips stay with you. It’s very easy for a simple trigger to bring all those feelings rushing back. And if you’re already fighting depression, you really don’t need that. Even if you think you’re doing something in a guided situation, your brain will get to a point when it just shuts anyone else out and goes off and does its own thing.

Also, I’m not a shrink, but have worked within mental healthcare for 17yrs. In my experience, people who have existing mental health difficulties who’ve experimented with psychedelics, struggle the most in the long term.
Just my opinion.

[Robster]

These are all really helpful replies and quick ones, thanks for that.

haroman666: i've done MDMA in the past and had two of the best nights of my life on them, but the come down is horrendous and lasted almost a week after, was an emotional wreck.

Saraya: that does sound pretty awful, not a fan of come downs at all, I value your opinion

Smegballs: i've read that too and it is a worry, don't want to be flinging myself off any bridges in the near future. The thought of making my issues worse scares me quite a bit.

Perhaps as an experiment I may try shrooms at some point and maybe put the idea on hold for now. I've been depressed long enough to know I usually come out the other side at some point and I appreciate it's not for everybody.
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Up the bum no babies.

[smegballs]

If you were gonna try it anyway, maybe look into microdosing rather than shooting for a full ego-death mode. One if my friends started learning how to make instruments from sheet metal and with microdosing learned in 6 months what usually takes 3 years.

If you are the sort of person that always jumps right in at the deep end and does well under pressure when things are looking bad you'll probably (note probably) be fine. If you easily get overwhelmed when things get hectic then it's probably not the best of ideas. That said I know loads of soft as butter hippies that take trips all the time and are relatively normal...

[Ste]

If you're going to try such things then general advice is to do them somewhere you feel safe and comfortable as well as with people you trust. I'm not sure that a spiritual retreat somewhere in Holland will tick all those boxes.

You say that Citalopram did nothing for you which isn't too surprising as drugs have different effects on different people. Some people will find Citalopram solves all their problems and it'll be highly recommended by them. Other people won't notice anything from taking Citalopram. And the last group of people will have had a really shitty time when taking Citalopram.

The same will be true for whatever psychedelics you're looking at. The cocktail of drugs available at that spiritual retreat might be the answer you're looking for or it might just make things worse.

Having some benzodiazepines on hand might be useful as if you're having a bad trip then they can help level your head and remove a bit of anxiety.

Do some reading on www.bluelight.org and maybe post a thread on there to see what they've got to say about it.

[smegballs]

The brutal honesty on bluelight is always good. None of the "swim smoked two joints" bullshit on there. Bluelight people are like "well I just shot up a load of H and then ate a few vicodin for good measure, then an hour later smoked some crack to get perked up for work"

[Robster]

[Azoth]

[nowhere.elysium]

As a manic depressive, I was originally quite iffy about trying psychedelics. However, If you're in an environment that you feel completely safe in, with people you trust, I'd say that it's entirely worth doing. This is entirely subjective on my part, but I found that it's actually a massive help with regards to managing depression - I found that it gave me the perspective I required to be able to reexamine the things that were troubling me, far more than SSRIs ever have (I've been on long courses of escitalopram, sertraline and fluoxetine in the past). It was also rather fun at the time, as were almost all of the subsequent events.

Personally, I find that it's best to treat it more as a therapeutic tool than as a source of entertainment, though: there will be times that it shows you things that you won't want to see, but even bad things are informative and instructive. My last experience culminated in me being curled up in a foetal position, weeping and twitching uncontrollably for about an hour and a half. I wasn't sad or upset, and I actually got a lot from the experience, but I wouldn't say it was 'fun' as such. It's more like a release valve - frequently, one can enjoy the feeling of release, but there are times when it has to vent some shit that you'd rather not. Take the rough with the smooth, is the best I can advise on that.
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'10 SV650SF, '83 GS650GT (it lives!), Questionable DIY dash project, 3D Printer project, Lasercutter project

[smegballs]

[Lord Percy]

I saw a mate go batshit crazy from LSD, at a rave where most of us just did MDMA. I saw him at the peak of the bad trip, he was an animal, I didn't even dare get in the taxi back with him. He later calmed down, said "ah that was a bad one eh lads", then over the following weeks he wouldn't stop going on about the battle between good and evil, making up weird links between various world events and concluding that the devil was involved, and other shit, until he eventually must have caved in and told his parents he needed sectioning, poor lad. Ended up living in a care home in Worcester (miles from home) with fellow schizophrenics like this guy and we lost him for good. He smoked weed and all that as well. That was about 8 years or so ago and his life has gone nowhere since then, other than maybe losing the paranoid thoughts and getting a job at McDonalds.

Of course other people love the stuff and swear by it but for me personally I'd never touch it now. I'd be constantly thinking about having my own bad trip + mental asylum experience, which would probably turn it into a self-fulfilling prophecy. I've done acid before as well. Shit scared of the stuff now.

I'd say using drugs with the explicit desire to cure a mental problem is extremely dodgy territory.

[Ste]

[Lord Percy]

[smegballs]

There's gonna be a certain percentages of casualties with any high(er)-risk behaviour. I guess percies mate was just one of the short straws. Even something as. "normal" as motorcycling claims a lot more people than other modes of transport.

Luckily lsd-mentalists are pretty few and far between. Given that tens of thousands if people take acid at psytrance festivals each summer and they still come back the following year.

If it was a choice between "beat depression via a solo-trip into the heart of the Amazon" or "beat depression by dropping acid", I'd say taking the drugs is the safest option.

It's not like the often long-term and extremely debilitating side effects of conventional psych-medication haven't been well documented.

[M.C]

[The Artist]

[Hetzer]

You seriously do not want to experience ego-death, or whatever the fuck it is. I went through it (whatever the fuck it was) on DMT and it was beyond horror and terror.

LSD on the other hand, that'll wipe your dial and properly sort you out. After eight hours of that you'll wonder why you ever took anything seriously enough to let it screw with your mental well-being.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[Lord Percy]

Anyone ever try salvia?

Not sure if it's legal any more but it was ten years ago.

Needs to be smoked but has to be done via a bong so it burns hot enough and releases the drug properly or something. I can vouch for this. Tried it in a rollie and felt nothing. Tried it in a bong and entered a completely and utterly different dimension for a couple of minutes that felt like an eternity. Wasn't expecting it at all, so came to the conclusion that I was in the twilight zone between life and death and just needed to find the source of the thing that had caused me to died. Apparently I stood up, looked in my shoe, then sat down again. I remember thinking I was being electrocuted. Then the pure white "The Matrix" style world I was in slowly faded back into a technicolor reality of contorting shapes rotating slowly around the centre of my vision while a clashing reverberating noise echoed around me. Eventually the colours and shapes became discernible cartoon faces. Soon after I realised the shapes were people and I was in my mate's shed and had not actually died.

Felt like an eternity, left me shaken for hours.

Anyone else?

Just found this too: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvia_divinorum#Therapeutic_potential - apparently has links to depression curing. Not sure how much of that is simple speculation though.

[The Artist]

[Hetzer]

[Lord Percy]

[stinkwheel]

Before 'shrooms were banned, I can say I had nothing but positive experiences with them. They have the advantage of being pretty much dose dependant too. More is more, less is less.

Thing is, the experience ENTIRELY dependant on situation. How you go into it, where you are, what your headspace is. I'm always careful only to mess with that kind of thing in a very positive, comfortable situation when I'm with people who know the score.

You'll see videos on youtube of people tripping balls and someone with them constantly asking if they're ok. "Are you ok? You alright?" a) Buzzkill. and b) Might seed the idea you may not be alright. You want someone who'll either just sit and listen to you witter shite, offer you a drink, take you for a walk or something.

I've had Woodrose seeds a few times too which contain LSA. That can be pretty intense but also causes a bit of an upset gut initially. A couple of mates and I took 6 each. Two of us wandered round a rally site having a great time looking at all the weird bikes and people. The third sat in his tent for 6 hours moping.

So I'd take care, start low and make sure the place you are is comfortable and the people you're with know the score. As has been mentioned, certainly with LSA and 'shrooms, be aware of how long an experience you're letting yourself in for. Minimum 8 hours until normal service is resumed with both the ones I've mentioned. Once you've boarded the train, you're on it 'till the end of the track. There may well be stops along the way but you can't get off.

Another site that's useful for research is Erowid. They have some helpful info and experience vaults showing the good, the bad and the horiffic.
https://www.erowid.org/
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.