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Cycling vs Motorcycling safety

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PostPosted: 10:40 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Cycling vs Motorcycling safety Reply with quote

Been trying to work this one out in my head for a while now. Cycling feels unsafe because you can't power away from cars, ultimately you're relying on them 'safely' overtaking you. But as you're slower/lighter your stopping distance's a lot shorter, so if something does happen you can normally avoid it.

I also find filtering a lot safer on a bicycle, I guess for the above reason (stopping distances), but you just seem to see more and being smaller you get stuck less.

Motorcycling's pretty much the opposite as above. I think also having had motorcycle accident(s), and not having had cycling accidents beyond falling off due to my own stupidity, or a bike fault might be a factor as well. Anyone have any thoughts?
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 11:28 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

On a push bike you have got to make doubly sure your seen, it makes me cringe when i pass people in the car and their wearing a black hoodie, with pound shop lights on their bike

I think just about every piece of my cycling kit has some form of reflective striping on it, and my jacket is day glo yellow.
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's always amused me that most motorcyclists wouldnt dream of commuting through busy traffic without wearing at least a jacket, gloves and a helmet, but on a bicycle, lycra is acceptable.

Likewise, ride a motorcycle with a defective brake light and you'll likely be pulled over. Ride a bicycle with no lights and thats fine.

Granted there are idiots everywhere, but lack of regulation encourages them.

If you do the same speeds on your pushbike as your motorcycle, I'd question the stopping distance argument, so if that worries you, simply ride the motorcycle slower, but like small motorcycles, bicycles are more forgiving and approchable in terms of physical bulk

Every cyclist commuter I know has had an off caused by another vehicle.

Asked another way, if I took your existing bicycle and fitted a small engine so you didnt need to pedal and it could out accelerate traffic from the lights, but otherwsie had the dynamics of your current bicycle, how would you feel about it then?
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 11:49 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an offence not to have lights on your push bike after dusk iirc its an ~80 pond on the spot fine
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 11:54 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
It's an offence not to have lights on your push bike after dusk iirc its an ~80 pond on the spot fine


It's an offence to drive a car with poorly aligned headlights too. Whether the offence exists is less relevant than whether it is enforced.
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 12:13 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been pulled over for no cycle lights on my way to work, in the distant past.

I'd have thought it would be nice little cash cow, ripe for milking
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PostPosted: 12:22 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:
It's always amused me that most motorcyclists wouldnt dream of commuting through busy traffic without wearing at least a jacket, gloves and a helmet, but on a bicycle, lycra is acceptable.

I thought this might come up Smile My logic's the speeds are lower and your body needs to be able to breath... and I don't where lycra anyway. I've never had anything more than cuts/grazes when coming off a bicycle.

Quote:
If you do the same speeds on your pushbike as your motorcycle, I'd question the stopping distance argument, so if that worries you, simply ride the motorcycle slower, but like small motorcycles, bicycles are more forgiving and approchable in terms of physical bulk

Well I can hold a genuine 20(ish) mph, on a mountain bike with standard v-brakes and I know it stops a lot better Smile Also riding a motorbike that slowly would defeat the purpose of having one, you'd still have people constantly overtaking you.

Quote:
Every cyclist commuter I know has had an off caused by another vehicle.

Asked another way, if I took your existing bicycle and fitted a small engine so you didnt need to pedal and it could out accelerate traffic from the lights, but otherwsie had the dynamics of your current bicycle, how would you feel about it then?

I've cycled tens of thousands of miles and never had a crash with a car (hopefully I never will). I think I'd like a small engine Smile like you used to get (bicycles with small 2-stroke motors). eBikes are an option but with the assist cutting out at 15mph iirc they're a waste really. However getting one that's been de-restricted is an option Thinking
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 12:36 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
B5234FT wrote:
It's always amused me that most motorcyclists wouldnt dream of commuting through busy traffic without wearing at least a jacket, gloves and a helmet, but on a bicycle, lycra is acceptable.

I thought this might come up Smile My logic's the speeds are lower and your body needs to be able to breath... and I don't where lycra anyway. I've never had anything more than cuts/grazes when coming off a bicycle.

Quote:
If you do the same speeds on your pushbike as your motorcycle, I'd question the stopping distance argument, so if that worries you, simply ride the motorcycle slower, but like small motorcycles, bicycles are more forgiving and approchable in terms of physical bulk

Well I can hold a genuine 20(ish) mph, on a mountain bike with standard v-brakes and I know it stops a lot better Smile Also riding a motorbike that slowly would defeat the purpose of having one, you'd still have people constantly overtaking you.

Quote:
Every cyclist commuter I know has had an off caused by another vehicle.

Asked another way, if I took your existing bicycle and fitted a small engine so you didnt need to pedal and it could out accelerate traffic from the lights, but otherwsie had the dynamics of your current bicycle, how would you feel about it then?

I've cycled tens of thousands of miles and never had a crash with a car (hopefully I never will). I think I'd like a small engine Smile like you used to get (bicycles with small 2-stroke motors). eBikes are an option but with the assist cutting out at 15mph iirc they're a waste really. However getting one that's been de-restricted is an option Thinking


Oh I'm not suggesting you should do anything differently, sod pedalling in full textiles! The assumption is that you go faster on a bike, but tbh, if you're commuting in London (for example) you'll be doing a similar speed on either for the most part and thus it makes an amusing comparison.

You reckon you can stop a mountain bike from 20 in less distance than a motorbike, reliably enough in poor conditions to take advantage of the difference? True, I wasnt suggesting you should, merely that the perceived advantage is not one of a bicycle being lighter, its the fact youre going slower Razz

Indeed, so its not a bicyle vs motorcycle argument really, its perception. A bicycle with a 50cc engine still seems easy to handle and you probably picture yourself on it still wearing a bike helmet and normal outdoor clothing. A 50cc motorcycle on the other hand is suddenly a motorbike.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

duhawkz wrote:
I've been pulled over for no cycle lights on my way to work, in the distant past.

I'd have thought it would be nice little cash cow, ripe for milking


Let's see how that would go then.

Copper on foot:
"Stop!"
"No." *continues riding*

Copper in car:
Police Police Police
*Turns off street between two buildings and rides away down canal path*

or

Police Police Police
*Stops, turns round, goes other way*

or

Police Police Police
*refuses to stop, rides away erratically, chase gets silly, SOP is not to persue cyclists in a car in case of an accident.*

Copper on a bike:
"Stop in the name of the law!"
"Ok. It's a fair cop guvernor."
"Right sunshine, you're getting a ticket. What's your name?"
"That's a capital "M" on both Mickey and Mouse officer Dibble."
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 12:56 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
duhawkz wrote:
I've been pulled over for no cycle lights on my way to work, in the distant past.

I'd have thought it would be nice little cash cow, ripe for milking


Let's see how that would go then.


I imagine it would go something like this

http://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=316464
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:

Oh I'm not suggesting you should do anything differently, sod pedalling in full textiles! The assumption is that you go faster on a bike, but tbh, if you're commuting in London (for example) you'll be doing a similar speed on either for the most part and thus it makes an amusing comparison.

Depends on the journey, but for me (commuting in London) I hit higher speeds on the motorbike (50 40 30mph officer) and the overall journey time's shorter, sometimes half the time if it's early in the morning.

Quote:
You reckon you can stop a mountain bike from 20 in less distance than a motorbike, reliably enough in poor conditions to take advantage of the difference? True, I wasnt suggesting you should, merely that the perceived advantage is not one of a bicycle being lighter, its the fact youre going slower Razz

I'm still not convinced on that one. I think if you had a motorbike/bicycle matching speeds the bicycle would stop a lot quicker, even in the wet etc. Granted there are a few other factors, braking setup (for both), and whether the bicycle has suspension. I think racers suffer from not having any, as they often nearly go over the handlebars when they stop quickly Smile

Quote:
Indeed, so its not a bicyle vs motorcycle argument really, its perception. A bicycle with a 50cc engine still seems easy to handle and you probably picture yourself on it still wearing a bike helmet and normal outdoor clothing. A 50cc motorcycle on the other hand is suddenly a motorbike.

I imagine having an engine (on a bicycle) really upsets the handling, braking etc., I'd have to ride one. I also assume they fall under motorbike laws.

We have 50cc mopeds at work and I haven't even considered riding them, I'd rather cycle Smile They're still nearly 100kg wet, a Puch Maxi's 40kg dry. Is there a modern equivalent with disc brakes? Thinking
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:47 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
We have 50cc mopeds at work and I haven't even considered riding them, I'd rather cycle Smile They're still nearly 100kg wet, a Puch Maxi's 40kg dry. Is there a modern equivalent with disc brakes? Thinking


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Ste
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PostPosted: 14:06 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

B5234FT wrote:
Every cyclist commuter I know has had an off caused by another vehicle.

Just because another driver was at fault doesn't mean the crash couldn't have been avoided by the cyclist.

As demonstrated in all of these videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/uphillfreewheeler

On cycling routes I go on that involve country lanes and I'm quite happy pulling over at the first opportunity to let cars / vans / farm traffic overtake me. If I had a helmet can then the footage would be incredibly boring compared to what uphillfreewheeler does on a daily basis.
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B5234FT
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PostPosted: 14:48 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh absolutely, but given the grey cells are a given as it would be me riding either, Id rather be on a motorcycle wearing cordura than on a bicyle wearing lycra when the SMIDSY occurs.
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Baffler186
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel much safer on a motorcycle because:

I'm going faster and a quick swerve has got me out of trouble on more than one occasion.
I'm wearing full gear rather than lycra.
I'm higher up, louder and arguably more visible.
My tyres are much wider.
If I need to stop I have better brakes that work equally as well in the wet.

And finally based on several years of using bikes and M/bikes; people in my city tend to respect motorcyclists far more than they do cyclists.
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PostPosted: 15:57 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Shaggy D.A. wrote:
M.C wrote:
We have 50cc mopeds at work and I haven't even considered riding them, I'd rather cycle Smile They're still nearly 100kg wet, a Puch Maxi's 40kg dry. Is there a modern equivalent with disc brakes? Thinking


http://www.sachsmadass.co.uk/

100kg as well.

Baffler186 wrote:
I feel much safer on a motorcycle because:

I'm going faster and a quick swerve has got me out of trouble on more than one occasion.
I'm wearing full gear rather than lycra.
I'm higher up, louder and arguably more visible.
My tyres are much wider.
If I need to stop I have better brakes that work equally as well in the wet.

And finally based on several years of using bikes and M/bikes; people in my city tend to respect motorcyclists far more than they do cyclists.

I don't agree on the 'better' brakes and being higher up, but mainly the respect thing. The main reason they don't (always) pull out on motorbikes is cos they know it'll be an accident with an insured vehicle... in other words it'll cost them.

Cyclists can normally stop/slow down in time (except Wolf Simpson of course), and they're only cyclists, a subhuman species so there's no issue really.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 11 Nov 2016    Post subject: Reply with quote

Baffler186 wrote:
I feel much safer on a motorcycle because:

I'm going faster and a quick swerve has got me out of trouble on more than one occasion.
I'm wearing full gear rather than lycra.
I'm higher up, louder and arguably more visible.
My tyres are much wider.
If I need to stop I have better brakes that work equally as well in the wet.

Good for you. Thumbs Up

( Laughing )
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