Restriction questions

[james96]

Hi all, I have been doing some googling in regards to a2 licenses and bike restrictions and come across this forum and a few good threads where people are giving good information and not just telling people off.

I am just starting to train for my A2 license with the end goal of being able use my bike to green lane legally.

The bike is a KTM 250 exc, I believe (from google) the bike is just under the BHP limit however way above the power:weight ratio meaning it's impossible to get some sort of certificate to say it's restricted.

I knew going into it I would never be 100% legal in regards to insurance however I wasn't really worried because the bike will genuinely only be used to ride to/from off-road places so not worried about being pulled.

Now the issue is after spending money on getting the license, mot and everything else for the insurance to turn around and ask for proof of restriction when obviously I can't supply it.

How many insurance companies actually ask to see proof it's been restricted?


I've seen so many people riding ktm 125's and aprilla rs 125 with L plates on and they don't seem to have any trouble.

If anyone here is doing something similar to me it would be great to talk to someone who has done something similar.

Cheers!

[weasley]

You have more than just the insurance to worry about.

Firstly, a switched on insurer would know that the bike is ineligible for an A2 rider, so wouldn't quote. If they did accept your policy then they may ask for proof, although this is a lottery. If, however, you needed to claim and someone looked into it, you may be in 'insurance policy cancelled' territory as well as riding without insurance.

Next, assuming you got the insurance and other paperwork, if you did get stopped by the police and they were switched on, you could end up facing a 'riding with no licence' situation.

In the end, you can not ride that bike on an A2 licence, so it makes no difference about restricting or not. You may as well be asking about a Fireblade.
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Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[Brendan110_0]

If you're riding to/from off road places then you're breaking the law. Sell it and get a 125cc with L plates, you sound young so harder to be potatoe'd.
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sreeB fo gniK

[arry]

There's no such thing as an 'official' restriction certificate. One you make up on Photoshop in the comfort of your own home has just the same validity as one FI International or the like sell you with a set of washers - they're both not in any way legal proof of restriction. However, having one MAY stave off a not so clued up copper from sniffing too closely - and it will quieten the odd insurance company that'll ask.

I doubt heavily that the vast majority of insurer intermediaries will know enough about A2 restriction regulation that they'll refuse to accept the policy and a mocked up restriction certificate if they ask for one.

[Rogerborg]

KTM are reticent about the power of their EXC bikes. Even if you can find someone who knows about the power-to-weight, are they going to care enough to try and find out?

You haven't said which year, but they look to be around 107kg dry. It's the wet weight that's used though, which will be closer to 120kg. That gives you 24kW of power to play with.

As arry says, any piece of paper that says "this bike makes 24kW" carries exactly as much weight as the reader gives it.

If you ride sensibly, you're not likely to get tugged, and even if you do, it's not likely to be an issue if you pass the Attitude Test.

If you're risk averse, biking's a curious way to get around.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[definitelyinc...]

As an A2 rider I doubt they'll check but i do ride restricted anyways as getting caught will mean a pig will go really deep where the sun doesn't shine.

With my insurer I only had to send off my mod 2 pass certificate (license didn't even come back to me), no restriction crap needed... even though kawa did supply my previous owner with one and I had it at hand... it has no legality to it anyway, so you could make some crap up on word and make it look official af.

[Teflon-Mike]

I think you are out-smarting yourself, focusing on one small pont of a 'plan' and missing the bigger picture.

[james96]

Cheers for all the replies.

The bike in question I already have and is fully road registered, lights and everything else. Not worried about police once I am off the road as most of it will be green laning and completely legal.

My biggest worry was insurance or police catching onto the fact the bike is more than double the power:weight ratio which means it CANNOT be restricted. Or am I wrong and the double rule only applies to bhp?

[lihp]

[weasley]

'Green lanes' are still roads, so you still need a licence (appropriate to your bike) plus MoT, tax and insurance and the RTA applies.

If you are going properly off-road (ie not on a byway) you need the land-owner's permission. Third party liability insurance may also be prudent.

But, of course to get to any of these means using actual roads, with all those rules.
____________________
Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[Rogerborg]

[james96]

Sorry for not making myself clear, when talking about green lanes I meant I was less likely to be in contact with police as I would be mostly using green lanes, I understand they carry the same rules as a normal road.

I've just checked the log book and it says the power/weight ratio(kW/kg) is 0.07 and the bikes max. net power (kW) is 7.

Am I looking at it wrong or is that very wrong?

[Rogerborg]

That's not right, that'd be a poor power rating for a 4 stroke 125.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[james96]

Yes that is what I was thinking. Could this make any difference when insuring it? Maybe I wouldn't need to restrict it?

Picture of logbook: https://i.imgur.com/EOY33CU.jpg

[weasley]

You're reading it right, but that would make it less than 10 hp.
____________________
Yamaha XJ600 | Yamaha YZF600R Thundercat | KTM 990 SMT | BMW F900XR TE

[james96]

Weird. Maybe it's because when it arrives in the country it has some stupid pipe on it to get past emissions and stuff?

Will this have any affect on what I was asking in the OP?

[Rogerborg]

Someone's had a laugh with that. If it's the 2-smoke then folk are claiming over 40hp at the rear wheel.

Hang on, is this the 4-stroke 250 RFS? Even at that, I'd be astonished if it was that low.

Might be a question for KTM, although they're notoriously coy about quoting power figures.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[Monkeywrenche...]

[Ste]

Dirt bikes magnetically attract plod.

With that in mind, don't be too surprised if you get stopped by some bored cops when you're on the roads between byways. But I doubt they'll know enough about that bike to know the power to weight ratio issues and as long as you're not a dick to them then they're not going to the effort of finding out.

The risk of your insurance company wanting proof of restriction when you take the policy out or in the event of a claim is a whole different problem and as you've stated, it's not possible for your bike to be meet the restriction.

[james96]

[c_dug]

I think you're over thinking it.

It's your risk in the end, but if you don't act completely stupidly on the road you are unlikely to get pulled over, and if you don't get pulled over you will almost certainly never be caught. The only think I would be worried about is having an accident bad enough for the bike to be taken straight to the insurer or police impound.

For what it's worth I pretty much straight up ignored my restriction, during my under (33bhp) restriction I rode a 45bhp bike, a 50bhp, and a 100bhp bike. All as illegal as each other.

The only time I have ever been asked about restriction was when I was tugged by a bike cop at 80 odd in a 50 zone. I was well outside of my restriction period by then.
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I am a bellend, I am a man of constant sorrow, I am a gummy bear, I am a rock.

[james96]

Found this with all the other documents:
https://i.imgur.com/5upUM8c.jpg

Would that be enough to show it's restricted?

[Rogerborg]

[Teflon-Mike]

Green Lanes ARE roads. Lanes, Green, Roads they is. Unsurfaced rights of way, are roads just like ones surfaced with tarmac. Green Lanes are unsurfaced roads, just like roads surfaced in tarmac. Green Laning is not 'off roading' green lanes are roads, without a tarmac surface. Surfaces, make no difference to whether a road is or not; its whether the route has a vehiclular right of way. Rights of way, whether they have tarmac or are covered in mud, are still roads, they are not 'off road'. Not sure how many ways it can be said really....Would translation into Greek, hindi maybe, arabic help any. Laws that apply on tarmac roads apply to muddy ones, and an awful lot of land that isn't roads, be it covered in mud or grass or tarmac, if you can ride a motorbike onto it. The surface is not pertinent to the matter.

You know that the bike is contentious; you know that riding it is contentious. And the matter of whether you can blag it past the plod, is but one small bit of contention in the greater scheme, of dirt riding, where you seem to think that plod can only stop you on tar!!!

Little heads up for you, they can stop you on mud too!

And in recent years they have even taken to sending cops out on dirt bikes semi incognito... they have half a dozen purple Kawasaki's round here.... that have a tiny 'police' sticker on the front headlamp surround to be able to deem then an officially 'marked police vehicle'. Whilst black rukka gear and a white open face, isn't exactly an obvious 'uniform'...

And the borough only has about 5o yards of surfaced public road! Up in the National Parks and other 'favorite' dirt bike haunts, they are even more numerous; often called in for special initiatives from squads like my bored borough's local team!

Add on Edd: Oh, and those purple Kwaka cops, seem to be an awful lot more clued up on matters, of RoW & bike law than the usual dullard uniform or braggart traffic even; many I believe are BMF TRF & GLASS members, and it's their 'hobby' too.. I wouldn't be none to sure of blagging anything past them any too easy.

Given the contention of the pursuit, these days, I would want to be DAMN sure that I was 1oo% legit and above board and above question, and APPEAR to be so, before I started, to minimize the chances of questions ever being raised, let alone there being any area of doubt or uncertainty. NOT trying to argue it out miles from anywhere down a muddy track, as they told the recovery fellas to load my bike on the waggon, and told me to take the matter up with the Chief super at the station!!!

But it is your ass kimo sabbi...

Just remember, the Green lane code; 'tread lightly'; as slow as possible, as fast as necessary... or fools rush in where angels fear to tread!
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[Alpineandy]