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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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Posted: 00:27 - 01 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Learners can either learn how to drive on motorways when they've got an instructor in the car that's got dual controls or learners can learn how to drive on motorways by themselves after passing their test.
There's not a huge amount to learn anyway, they're not very different from dual carriageways so if someone can manage those then a motorway at a quiet time of day shouldn't be a problem.
Or just do what I did and take your L plates off before going to play at filtering on the M4 in friday evening rush hour traffic in the rain trying to keep up with someone on a ZX6R.
With the CBT if the first one is valid for two years and then any more are only valid for six months then that might provide some incentive for people not to stay on L plates forever and ever. Making a system like that with what would effectively be the introduction of a second type of CBT without having too many unnecessary layers of bureaucratic nonsense would be the tricky bit!
edit: typo.
Last edited by Ste on 01:23 - 01 Jan 2017; edited 1 time in total |
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Dave70 |
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Dave70 World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Wonko The Sane |
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Wonko The Sane World Chat Champion
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Azoth |
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Azoth Brolly Dolly
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:41 - 02 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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asta1 wrote: | Depending on how it was implemented, there doesn't seem to be anything excessively stupid in there. THe CBT stuff appears to be focussed primarily on the standard of teaching and standardisation of the currculum |
The curriculum already is standard and well defined. That doesn't mean that it's followed, as we often hear.
Mine was pretty good, but I managed to skip element D (on road prep) entirely.
More details today:
https://despatch.blog.gov.uk/2016/12/30/our-proposals-to-improve-motorcycle-training-a-detailed-look/
No distinction between DAS and CBT instructors (long overdue).
Merging on-site "training" (this is bike) and "riding" (now ride bike) together.
Mandatory minimum clothing Presumably this list that they've already invented - legislation by the back door.
Steering taught as a specific skill. (Countersteering? Knee down?)
Filtering covered in theory.
More regular assessment of instructors. At the moment, only CBT instruction is assessed, which has always seemed a bit daft.
And the long awaited training upgrade route. This was always explicitly allowed by the 3DLD. It could be done and dusted in a day, like a CBT+, which is great for riders, but sadface for instructor income. DVSA could get shot of some examiners, although they might just be shifted to assessment of instructors. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Azoth |
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Azoth Brolly Dolly
Joined: 07 Jul 2016 Karma :
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Posted: 14:07 - 02 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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The Grade 6/7 policy guy also says:
"We’re proposing to introduce mandatory quality assurance checks for instructors who provide any road-based motorcycle instruction – not just CBT. This would provide assurance that all training is being provided to the required standard.
...
We’re also proposing that an instructor who fails a standards check would have up to 2 more attempts to reach the standard."
Directly hitting not only the CBT cowboys (some of which may have the wherewithal to take cover under this shotgun fire) but anyone who offers to supply 'advanced' motorcycle riding training.
The law as it stands would allow me, someone with no instructor accreditation at all, to provide road-based advanced rider training to anyone who's legal on the road.
I don't think there's much wrong with the current state of play with regard to advanced rider trainers and trainees. In general, trainees are people interested in advanced riding techniques who already know how to ride and keep themselves basically safe, and the trainers may be entrepreneurs or else well-meaning people looking for fulfilment or camaraderie. In other words, the current situation isn't problematic.
This 'proposal' may be the low-hanging fruit intended for MAG to jump on and bravely spear with an olive fork, mighty and effective police and army and MI5 they are (not)... I take this to mean that the proposals in pictograms shall be implemented in full, regardless of what anyone says, but the Pan-riding CB-radio lot will achieve the retraction of this particular element ostensibly by virtue of their efficacy, determination, professionalism and all the other qualities they clearly don't have but deem important... Just a guess. ____________________ Safety in numbers |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 14:50 - 02 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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^^^
Already rated Insightful, but deserves a double-plus. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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TheSmiler |
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TheSmiler World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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TheSmiler |
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TheSmiler World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Posted: 00:07 - 03 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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A two part test isn't a bad idea actually Grooves in the road are really annoying, bus lanes can be bad, but what really gets me is horizontal bumps going across the road. There's a couple of places on the north circular where I get air in my seat, and there's a bumpy section of the M25 as well. |
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TheSmiler |
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TheSmiler World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
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DrSnoosnoo |
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DrSnoosnoo World Chat Champion
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Posted: 14:24 - 04 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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Here's something I don't like. They use the position that 21% of the deaths/severe incidents are motorcyclists is thus equal to the number of accidents that motorcyclists are involved in.
BUT from .gov's publication RAS20001:
2015 has 398 deaths (13%) by motorcycles of the total 2889 road deaths (including cyclists 113).
Of reported accidents of all severities total, there were 20,996 by motorcycles of the 257,845 total. So motorcycles are involved in 8.14 % reported accidents. Cyclists are involved in 7.54 %.
So the issue of overrepresentation still exists but this could be due to the fact that having any collision on a motorcycle is much more dangerous than that of a car. Even a small nudge at 15 mph, which some car drivers could shrug off and sort outside of the reporting, could severely damage a motorcyclist.
Silly number pushing but it makes it a bit less daunting. From these figures, if you are involved in a collision that is reportable you have a 1 in 53 chance of dying. If you are a cyclist and you have a collision that is reportable, you have a 1 in 172 chance of dying (not going as fast init, you'll still die if you get squished).
Somewhere in the middle is cars, if you're in a collision that is reportable you have a 1 in 106 chance of dying. ____________________ I'm Sam; Northern, Ginger, Lover
Did have: '95 ZZR600 '83 CG125 '97 ZZR1100 '15 Hypermotard 821 SP Do Have: '10 ZX10R |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Posted: 14:56 - 04 Jan 2017 Post subject: |
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True, and there's an argument to be made that dead is better than Pol'd quadraspazzed, for the family and the Homeland Economy.
But it doesn't make us less dead. We need to be betterer than car drivers per mile. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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DrSnoosnoo |
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DrSnoosnoo World Chat Champion
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 7 years, 153 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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