Bigga Bike

[neptune8]

I have been riding bikes since 1962 on and off. I got back into bikes last year after a 6 year layoff. I currently ride a CG125, and I like it. It was cheap to buy, easy to work on, good MPG, low insurance, cheapish spares. The downside is that I could use an extra 10 or 15 MPH to feel safer on trunk roads. My question is, is there are 250 to 300 cc bike with most of the above virtues? I expect things to cost a bit more of course. Any recommendations please?
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Enjoy yourself, its later than you think

[Northern Monkey]

Probably a 500 twin, like a cb500
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Fisty: after polishing the tank with the glistenng beads of sweat from my full hot scrotum, I filled the headrace bearings with 10cc of my manmilk

[RhynoCZ]

I assume you have got the open A licence.

I'd suggest a in-line 4 cylinder then. Not necessarily a superbike, of course.

To answer your question, yes there are 250cc bikes, most of them are from the 80's and early 90's though and the modern stuff is just too expensive for what it is.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Azoth]

A Honda CBF250 would meet all of your criteria. It has all the strengths of a CG125. The parts and spares ought to be as cheap or nearly as cheap, insurance will be cheap, very easy to work on, fuel economy will be excellent, etc. If you have a bit more money, then one of the more modern 250s, like the Suzuki Inazuma, would be nice, as you also get a better riding position, better, more modern brakes and suspension, etc. The CBF250 is like a CG but with more power.
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Safety in numbers

[Rogerborg]

CBF250 and Inazuma are both decent shouts, and curiously you can pick up a newer Inazuma for much the same price as a 10+ year old CBF.

There aren't a huge number of bikes around in that capacity, so most recommendations would have to be caveated by "... if you can find one for sale in budget and travelling distance."

I'd approach the Chinese 250 with caution even if you see one come up locally. They'll be barely quicker than a 125 (my 250 cruiser was a real slug), and finding parts will require you to go a bit off piste.

There's the usual "Have you considered an Enfield?"

One bike that I'd like to like is the Mash 400, although again, I'd ensure a source of parts first, and you're not spoiled for choice unless you want to drop £4K on a new one.
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Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[arry]

YBR250.

Suzuki Inazuma 250.

[wr6133]

Fireblade

[Pigeon]

Don't cb500 do 75mpg or something silly.

I've got a 250 and the best its done is 66mpg....admittedly the worst is 62mpg.

Each to their own, but I can't see me buying a bike with less than 300cc again when running costs of a 500 are no more.

[kgm]

Some of the larger modern FI bikes are pretty good on fuel now. I'd be thinking a 500cc machine if high speed trunk roads form a significant part of your riding. The smaller machines will of course manage it also but for day in day out commuting on a motorway something heavier is a benefit when it gets windy and horrible.

If trunk roads are only a small part then there's much fun to be had on the wee bikes. I'd quite like a CRF250 for touring on the cheap.


If saving money is the ultimate goal then a CB500 is probably a good shout. THere's no point spending fortune on a brand new bike with good fuel economy if you can spend a fraction on a good used machine which is merely average on fuel unless you're doing significant mileage.

For reference I reckon i get about 50mpg with an ER6. I don't tend to ride it for economy though. My commute is short and mostly blasts between traffic lights and roundabouts on 50-70mph roads. On a run probably does a bit better but I thrash it regularly.

[pepperami]

Type in 250 into Flea-Bay, there are loads of different choices.

Inazuma or YBR are both mainstream, so benefit from dealer support.

Winner winner chicken dinner
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[Motorhate]

[arry]

How many miles a year do you do?

[Samsbike]

nc700. loads of economy and should be good for trunk roads as well

[Falco]

[Teflon-Mike]

The CG125 is something of a peculiarity in having push-rods. Most Japanese 4T offerings almost from the start have had chain driven Over-Head-Cams.
Off the top of my head, I can name only two other Japanese bikes with push rods; the Honda CX500 and the Yamaha MT01.

The CX500 magot bears some thought, as it is bang on the 500cc you suggest, as well as has push-rods.... it was Sochiro Honda's tribute to the Tonti Twin, a High-Tech Guzzi V50... that lostthe plot somewhere along the way... main beuty of the V50 was it was low tech, air-cooled, push rod engine was light tight and for both its era and it's push-rod design remarkably punchy at 50bhp, it was as powerful as things like the Yamaha RD400, the CB400 'four' or even a Kawasaki GT550, yet, it was light, it was tight and it handled. The Maggot? Added water-cooling, added weight and lost power, as well as handling... comfy perhaps, sporting it wasn't!

As a collectors piece ad brat-pack 'cafe special' the old maggot still has something of a following... ersonally I struggle to see the atraction other than the shear number of ex despatch hacks still laid up derelict with rotten swing arm bridges in folks back yards... it was superseded by the longitudinal, OHC VT500 twin, and its derivatives that is still with us in some models, notably I believe the NT700 hich might beg a sqint.... but does chuck the spot-light on the Guzzi's... he says enoking a large groan from the BCF missive.

Toti's master-piece he 'old' V50 'small-block' is still with is, in variouse updated guises over the years. Hogged out forst to 650 then a full 750, and updated this century with 17" wheels and radial tyres, and such electrckery as fuel injection, underneath the Breva/Stone/Scrambler or whatevever name the marketing men think will sell this season, is an old V50.. with fins, and push-rods, and top ends you ca strip to the crank without havg to remove the engine from the frame... or lift the backbone off the crank-cases at least.

It was always a loverly bike to work on.... just as well given it was Italian! But, an Italian BMW, it wasn't quite as finikity as most, and the way it was laid ot dd make a lot of mechanics a joy... you just had to live with red rusty cast discs every morning!

The O/H has a mid 90's version of the 750, still on carbs and 18" wheels. It's no more powerful than the smaller V50, with 'just' 50bhp, but it does the number is deceptive, they are Italan stallions rather than Japanse pit ponies! It has an awful lot of useful low and mid range and pulls more like a bike half as powerful again. It's also a little heavier than the original V50 at around 175Kg, instead of 150-160. But again, that weight is well placed, and it feels like a 125 on steroids on the road, and is actually still lighter than a lot of more contemporary middleweight 500-750 twins, and a far few water-cooled fours with sporting pretensions.

They also made a sleeved down 350 version of the small-block models for the domestc Italian market, which were more popular there for tax reasons, and a lot got to this country in the 90's when Italy revised the tax system. No smaller or lighter, they are just less powerful, ad I wuld go for a full 500 or 750 f I could.

Styling wise the V50 was a street standard traditional road bike, rather sit up and beg 'concervative' and pretty comfy. The sporty 'monza' aped the big-bore le-mans wth low rise bars, low bum stop seat and more rearset pegs... which on such a compact bike was excruciatng for some-one of my 6'+ size... a short shock slightly more raked step seat 'Factory custom' was offered and became the V650C, before evolvng into the mini California as the 'Nevada' that has remained since, gainig fuel injection and stuff along the way. Curiousely a cruiser that 'handles', and well worth a look at, if you like push-rods and a little Latin charm.... hey, look your close enough to alziemers, you'll have forgotten the niggles it has before you wake up next! If t gels, roll with it!

MT01... A quarter to of 1500cc Harliesque Buell idiocycracy... I ACTUALLY came close to buying one! Cricket and almost NEW one! Where d you get your alziemers meds from BTW?! lol. Err... No, its probably not really, a candidate. More a curiosity.... but other than incredibly old mopeds, and Milwaukee farm impliments, I think that just about exhausts anything with push-rods.

Which means most contenders are likely to be Japanes, and most likely to be pretty much domestic appliance like integrated, almost sealed for life 'products' in which the very idea of 'easy to work on' results n a large bill gates error message on the screens of the computers in Homatsu.... you are not supposed work on it, you are supposed to buy aother one!

250 - 400cc is pretty much a dead area in the market A few more contemprary commuters have been offered in that segment, but as most who have a licence to ride'em could ride something bigger, few want'em, and most are refugees from the 250 learner era, or unloved hacks few of which will have ever been much loved.

Standing out n that crowd is the old Honda CD200 benly, which is something of a bargain; pretty mint examples rarely fetch much more than £500 ad they are in such a hole in the insurance groupings that their almost learner-legal 15bhp meas they are probably one of the cheapest things on the road to insure, whilst they return 125 like or better fuel economy and have a useful amount of extra power... mot at the top.. they are no more powerful than a modern CBR125 or YZF-R125... but they do have a useful bit of that low down... well, stomp might be giving it a little too much credit, but, 'drive' perhaps? But finding one that is as mechanically solid as the paint, could be a challenge, and they are that much more involved to work on.

Which leads to suggeston of looking further up the market, and capacity range, and at more contemprary offerings.... and rearing its head loftily i that crowd would be the Kawasaki ER5.. which with water cooled parallel twin engine, was a very sensible motorcycle... once... now, if you can find a well loved, low owner, preferably more mature one, who has used it as only 'occasional' commuter, could be a real bargain. Unfortunately, most will have been ridden nto the groud by a successio of budget commuters and then thrashed to death by a buch of 33bhp restrcted licence holders... and ther ideas of maintenance, and the dfiulties of working on a more involved OHC waler cooled engine, start to rear their ugly head... while when you look at the specs, its 'advanced' technology hasn't really enhanced performance much, its still only a 50bhp bike, and not an awfully light one...

Glance up, from that at more modern offerings like the ER6, and you start to realise that for all things have moved on 'soooooooo' much... not all of that progress is particularly helpful! The ER6, that aught be a 'middle-weight' commuter motorcycle, is actually heavier than my old CB750 blunderbus! As well as having all those widgets in ts mechanics AND body work hiding them from spanners.....

Which s all a log winded way around the matter, BUT, leap fro a lightwght CG125 to anything is probably going to take a lot of perception re-calibration.

'Cheap' is relative... 125's command a premium for being able to hang an L-Plate on them; CG's even more due to their cult status. You can buy an awful lot of big bike for the price of a CG, but, you are in the barrel scraping end of the market under £1500.

There's plenty of big bike offerings around for CG-Project like money in the £500 region, but most will be bikes that are close or beyond their useful working life, and likely to need work. More sensble ones like the ER5, are likely to be no easier on nerves or wallet than less sensible ones, say a CBR600.

Upping budget to maybe £1000, you might avoid the 'just needs' offerings and get something ride away ready, but risks of problems aren't much reduced, and even up to £1500, you probably wont be looking at anything hugely less likely to give grief... and all of them are likely to be a lot heavier, and heavier on consumables like tires and chains and brake pads.

It IS almost as if there is a huge 'hole between the lightweight 125's and the heavyweights, with little or nothing in between, and weight and performance and comfort significantly delineated from any correlation to engine capacity.

What you are asking for, a CG125 with balls, really is a unicorn that doesn't exist. If you want cheap, you are particularly pointed towards 125's, if you want more then you are pointed at heavy-weights, and expected to foot the bill.

There is a heck of a lot out there, I am sure that could 'serve', BUT, I think you'd need to recalibrate those perceptions to find something more suitable; and dissasociate ideas of cc being n any way related to weight or performance.

But... the Guzzi notion has some merit.... and after glancing at them, ad pondering just how essential 'easy to work on' is, and how essential being 'light and manageable' may be, and how much little extra 'oomph' you really cant live without, book is wide open.

But, arena you are considering as far as middle weight commuter twins IS a bit of a minefield, of run into the ground daily hacks, kiddie thrashed licence cheaters and the very odd renaisance ride.

And after pondering that 'bit' more, of anything, and the compromises needed to get any of it, liklihood is you will be looking at stuff you really wouldn't have dreamed of, and wondering 'if' you could live with the weight on your writs of a plastic fantastic, or the weight of a behemoth muscle bike, or the height of a adventure sport, or whether the classic cudos and easy mechanics of a old air head BMW would actually be as hard to live with 'all-round'.

I mean there is naother off the wall suggestion, a BMW R80, the cops favorite. Hardy comfy, civilised; built like a brick outhouse and easy to tickle with spanners the engine hanging out the sides; and by modern standards actually not that heavy, and for all its 800cc, not that powerful..

Book is wide open... but depends on what changes to the way you look at the question you apply, as anything after taking the idea of CC's and chucking them in the bin, after long hard appraisal of what constitutes 'cheap' and whether 'easy to work on' is really all that important, and whether you really need or want to work on something.

I run an old 90's CB750; a scrap heap refugee when I bought it over a decade ago for reletve penies; It's had far more than it's worth chucked at it to renovate it to a useful standard after use as a 'hack'; it wights about 200Kg, so its o lightweight, but isn't particularly heavier than a lot of modern middleweights. With four pots and DOHC it's not the most simple engine around, but hydraulc tappts do save some spanners, if they beg more diligent oil changes; and I will probably never even open the motor up to look at oily bits; oddometer died some years ago, just shy of 70K miles... it is on borrowed tme, when it gives up, its dad, I wont be trying to 'fix' it. Suspension with twn-shock back end was overhauled pretty easly with a pair of new Hagon shocks and four bolts, where more modern mono-shock offerigs are eyewaterngly expensve to get a new shock for before looking at all the links and bushes to work them. So, its reasonably easy to work on and live with, a lot of that down to preventative maintenance, as much as design. Meanwhle, book says it should return around 50MPG, which is rather notional. I can and regularly do get 125 like 70's from it, not feeling the need to same it every where, though if I do, I likely drop into the mid 30's. Round town, I probably average around the 60 mark. It doesn't ask for fuel very often, and tend to be rather surprised when go to fll it ad can still see liquid in the tank! By comparson, the 125, we build for O/H to get her licence; Riding that? I am rather more wont to thrash the knackers off it, ad I rarely see the better MPG t might be able to offer close to tripple digits. O/H using it to do her house calls, think managd around 90ish from it, when she measured my ridng, I got told off, as it was rarely any better than the 70 I regularly get from the 750. And with screw and clock-nut tappets and manal adjust cam chai tensioner, it does beg more spanner attension more often, and whilst chains ad tyres and stuff may be cheaper, actually its not an awful lot cheaper to run... especially when its ore expnsice to insure gaining the learner-loading for its 125cc displacement!

There really are so many swings and round-a-bots in the mix, it is an possible questio to answer, and targeting the 500cc sector on the notion that ts the middle-weight zone, and so 'must' be in the middle for price, performance and maintenance, just doesn't hold.

Forget cc's. Re-calibrate perceptions, look at the entire field; and ponder priorities and compromises. There is a lot out there that could suit, but you have to think hard what you can really live with, and what you really want to live with.
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Ste]

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[pepperami]

Strewth!
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I am the sum total of my own existence, what went before makes me who I am now!

[Rogerborg]

First sentence was off-topic, didn't bother with the rest. I can't see why he does either.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[RhynoCZ]

[chris-red]

[RhynoCZ]

£1700 for a generic 250cc twin/single cylinder four stroke commuter is not cheap in my book.

I just checked the fleabay, and a nice cb 500 can be obtained for far less money. The extra torque and power, even if you find it decadent, always adds to the riding comfort and, in a way, safety. While the MPG being pretty much the same* and I bet the inssurance for the old cb 500 won't be any more expensive than for whatever 250cc.

*65 MPG and even better is not unrealistic. Iirc, a mate was riding his CB 500 at 4.2L per 100km = 67 MPG. I could do below 5L per 100km, not even trying to run economically.
The servicing costs of the cb 500 are/should be the same.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor

[Rogerborg]

[chris-red]

[RhynoCZ]

I did 5L per 100km easily, that's 56 MPG. I don't understand where people get these numbers. I used this to convert L/100km to MPG: https://mpg.webix.co.uk/

My view still stands though. A nice clean 20 years old CB 500 over a shiny 5 years old 250cc commuter ANY day of the week. IF OP was into in-line fours, which he is not as you suggested it'd be too unwieldy, then at £1700 there are some nice 4 cylinders too.

Newer doesn't necessarily mean better.
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'87 Honda XBR 500, '96 Kawasaki ZX7R P1, '90 Honda CB-1, '88 Kawasaki GPz550, MZ 150 ETZ
'95 Mercedes-Benz w202 C200 CGI, '98 Mercedes-Benz w210 E200 Kompressor