Got An NIP - Traffic Lights

[Nomad Z]

Just got home from work to find an NIP letter from Police Scotland, saying that I failed to comply with a traffic light signal. It's within the 14 days (2nd June), I would have been the rider, and I would have been there at the stated time (15:30). I certainly have no recollection of running a red light, which I don't do as a rule, so possibly not stopping on amber, or maybe not having the bike behind the stop line. It's a fairly busy stretch, and I would have been filtering, so going slowly in stop-start traffic.

The lights in question are here...

https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@55.9429416,-3.2845563,3a,57.5y,269.86h,81.79t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAFR2NdgR_YViXSelTpMu4A!2e0!7i13312!8i6656?hl=en

I would be heading west, and very probably filtering in the bit of bus lane next to the railings where there is no left turn. Notable, perhaps, that there is no access to this bit for pedestrians due to railings (but probably not mitigating from my perspective).

I assume I have no choice but to complete the NIP. I gather I can also request a copy of the photographic evidence. Can't see that it would be much use other than to satisfy my own curiosity as to what actually happened. I have no reason to suppose the lights themselves were faulty or otherwise illegal.

Can this be got out of, or am I looking at a definite 3 points and £100 fine? Assuming I do get busted, am I obliged to tell my insurer immediately, or can it be left until renewal time? Do I have to tell both the bike insurer and car insurer?

What sort of impact is this likely to have on the insurance? I have no other points, claims or convictions, and haven't had for least 10 years. Currently have 1 years NCD on the bike insurance. If the photographic evidence shows something minor like the wheel going a bit over the line into an area that pedestrians don't use, will that potentially help with insurance not getting hit too hard?

[Polarbear]

I'd ask for the photograph just to see how I was done. I presume there is a few milliseconds after it turns red before the camera is activated so you would be well past the stop line.

OR

You were sitting with your wheel over the line

OR

Did you filter and pull in front of the waiting cars into the space before the box junction?

I'd want to know, even if you can't get out of it, for future reference so you don't do it again.

And I'm curious what you did as well
____________________
Victory Cross Country American tractor.

[Nomad Z]

Yes, I'll be asking for the photo, as you say, if only to learn what can get you done so as to avoid it in the future.

In that bit, I'd have stayed left - there is more bus lane after the box junction, so it's just a case of continuing on the same track. I don't pull in front of cars if it means going over the line. If I had ended up in the space before the box junction, I'd have considered that a mistake (and would remember it, I'm sure).

Another possibility might have been getting off my mark a bit too quickly (at red-amber rather than green) to get ahead to be able to pull out past something parked in the far bus lane. The bus lanes aren't bus lanes until 4pm, but most drivers don't use them, and people sometimes park in them.

[Rogerborg]

Nothing much to add really. Complete the S172, ask for their evidence, if any.

To be honest, PePiPoo is better for this sort of thing. They will want to see every document that you're sent, and have a "Let's you and him fite" attitude (it's easy to gamble with other people's wallets), so make your own decision about whether to fess up or not.

https://forums.pepipoo.com/index.php?showforum=5

On a personal note, I treat red lights as advisories and have had one SP10 in 28 years, so it's not something that should really bother you too much.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike

[kgm]

As above. Don't ignore the S172 requirement, respond to it and then ask for any available evidence. It doesn't hurt to look at it.

I wouldn't expect three points to have a massive effect on your insurance to be honest. Still a pain in the ass though - I hate red light cameras even more than speed cameras.

[kawakid]

Happened to a bloke at work, who was adament he hadn't run a red light.

The lights in question are directly in front of my works main entrance and we have high quality cctv which also captures this area.

When we saw the recording he was 110% guilty.

It's happened to me also,not because I was pushing the time on the lights trying to get through, just because I wasn't concentrating.

In Manchester they used to offer a course instead of points, I remember this because most courses are only for speeding.

I did declare to insurers and it did make a difference in insurance renewals.

The 3 points last on your license for 3 years i.e. for toting up purposes hit 12 and it's bus pass time, after 4 years they are no longer shown. Your insurer wants to know for 5 years.

There is also no kudos to be had, getting points for going through a red, means you're a bit of a kxob, whereas getting done for speeding, making the local news there is. honest
____________________
I've a twin and a 4.

[suburban myth]

deffo for running a red light? that's one hell of a yellow box.

[ScaredyCat]

If there a chance that the light changed after you crossed the stop line but before you could traverse the yellow box. For example if traffic slowed forcing you to stop after the line, light changed, traffic moved off and you followed.

Any red light camera would be pointing down the road not at the stop line.
____________________
Honda CBF125 ➝ NC700X
Honda CBF125 ↳ Speed Triple

[AshWebster]

don't not put it on your insurance or you will be f*cked. I got 9 points in a year and my renewal only went up by ~£50.
____________________
Honda cg125 J reg peice of shit ---> CB650F ---> 2016 CBR600RR
Ford KA ---> 93' MR2 ---> 94'MR2 ---> 98' Subaru WRX STI Ver 3 (track car)

[CaNsA]

[ZebraDriver]

Ask for the evidence. I've heard of one similar case that went to court, were the photo was found to be showing a Green light. The traffic camera was incorrectly set.

[Nomad Z]

Seen the pictures. It's definitely a red light, and it's definitely me on my bike, proceeding in an orderly manner through the junction when I shouldn't have been. I reckon it was a momentary lapse of concentration in a fairly heavy filtering situation - I probably saw green on the approach, and then was more concerned with the traffic around me and didn't see the switch to amber and red, so sailed straight through.

They got me bang to rights and it was a fair cop.

If nothing else, it's made me more wary of traffic lights now. Did some online insurance quotes, and it looks like it won't affect things unduly.

[Tracer1234]

[Speedy2007]

As Rogerborg says, Pepipoo is probably your best bet. As it's Scotland you could send the 172 request back unsigned. They would probably call to see you and you'd have to avoid the polis for 6 months. I don't think there's a case yet in Scotland where an unsigned notice has been taken to court.

You could even become infamous by being the first.