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Billy Balthorpe |
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Billy Balthorpe Trackday Trickster
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Karma :
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Posted: 01:24 - 10 Dec 2017 Post subject: A2 Insurance question |
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My son will be taking his A2 licence over the next few months and I have a few questions about insurance.
If you buy a bike which needs to be restricted to comply with the 35KW limit, eg CB500S, Fazer 600, ER6F, do the insurance company REALLY screw you when compared to a standard bike which is just under the limit eg GS500?
Is it virtually impossible (cost wise) to get insured on bikes which are restricted from just under the maximum limit (about 92BHP?)? After all, you cant get in any more trouble with a bike which is restricted to 35KW however much more power it makes when unrestricted. For example if you restrict a Varadero 1000 to 35KW, the actual performance will be less than a restricted CB500 because of the power/weight ratio.
We have gone on the net to try to get some quotes on A2 restricted bikes, but on the usual price comparison sites, they do not have an option for an A2 licence, only provisional or full.
Does anyone have any examples of their own restricted bike insurance prices? My lad is 23 and has a clean provisional licence, he has been riding since 16.
Thanks. ____________________ M.O.B. Successfully taking the piss since 2014. |
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DRZ4Hunned |
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DRZ4Hunned World Chat Champion
Joined: 15 Apr 2014 Karma :
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Posted: 01:31 - 10 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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I'm 22, on A2 also. 5 years ncb.
Fazer 600 ('restricted') and DRZ400 for me is £300 annually TPO.
I got a quote for the Fazer alone for £96 ____________________ DRZ400-SM
FZS600 |
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Billy Balthorpe |
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Billy Balthorpe Trackday Trickster
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Karma :
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NJD |
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NJD World Chat Champion
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DRZ4Hunned |
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DRZ4Hunned World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 11:50 - 10 Dec 2017 Post subject: Re: A2 Insurance question |
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NJD wrote: | Billy Balthorpe wrote: | We have gone on the net to try to get some quotes on A2 restricted bikes, but on the usual price comparison sites, they do not have an option for an A2 licence, only provisional or full. |
Then full is the option you choose: answer the question they're asking. |
So much that.
It's the only truthful answer to the question that they're asking. A, A2, A1 or even AM are not provisional licenses. They're the ostensible professionals, you shouldn't have to be explaining licensing to them.
The problem comes when they ask if the bike has been modified in any way. Entirely depending on the insurer, if you answer yes, it's restricted to 35kW, you may receive the same wallet raping as if you'd said it had a turbo-nitrous-charger system.
If your goal is to save money on the premium, the way to do it is most likely to say "full license, bike not modified", and if any questions do get asked later, take the line that of course it's restricted to 35kW, it would be illegal to ride it otherwise, why would they assume otherwise, don't they know the law?
Which they quite probably don't, at least for the first few tiers of customer abuse.
Up to you, but being honest is likely to either:
1) Cost you significantly more.
2) Get you exactly the same policy when some phone monkey just ignores everything you've said and puts it through as "full, unmodified" in order to earn their commission.
It's entirely up to you, there's no good answer to this issue. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Billy Balthorpe |
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Billy Balthorpe Trackday Trickster
Joined: 05 Oct 2008 Karma :
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NJD |
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NJD World Chat Champion
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dydey90 |
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dydey90 World Chat Champion
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Billy Balthorpe |
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Billy Balthorpe Trackday Trickster
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Wonko The Sane |
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Wonko The Sane World Chat Champion
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asta1 |
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asta1 Scooby Slapper
Joined: 03 Dec 2015 Karma :
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 08:47 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Billy Balthorpe wrote: | As far a I knew, the A2 wasn't a Full licence, but a restricted one |
It's an A2 license, is what it is. The bad news is that the insurance ombudsman declared that the old style "A <= 25kW" category wasn't a "full" license.
The backstory to that though is that it was an eBike policy and they are/were one of the very, very few insurers to actually offer A1, A2 and A licence categories.
As you've found, comparison sites and most brokers are too pig ignorant to know the basics of motorcycle licensing and only offer you a choice between "complete lie" (provisional) and "not the whole truth (full).
It's really up to you whether you want to try and explain their job to them.
Billy Balthorpe wrote: | As for inventing a problem that does not exist, what I'm trying to find out is the approximate costs of insurance on different A2 restricted bikes. |
Ham. Insurance is a complete lottery from person to person, postcode to postcode, and day to day. Anyone else's answer is likely to give you false hope or pessimism. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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arry |
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arry Super Spammer
Joined: 03 Jan 2009 Karma :
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DRZ4Hunned |
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DRZ4Hunned World Chat Champion
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 13:35 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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And it might not go without saying, but do your quotes in a private browsing session (so no cookies stored) using Mr Fakename from a couple of doors along. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Qyburn |
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Qyburn Renault 5 Driver
Joined: 14 Jul 2017 Karma :
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Posted: 13:48 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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I don't read the decision that way, in the case considered the rider had a full licence without the restriction in place, the point in dispute was how long he had held that licence. The equivalent in modern terms would be say passing your A1 in 2015, and passing A2 in 2017 but telling the insurer you'd had your licence since 2015.
For what it's worth to my mind if the insurer only accepts full or provisional, then the question relates to the licence group which permits you to ride the bike concerned. ____________________ Lord Qyburn |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 15:09 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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Qyburn wrote: | I don't read the decision that way, in the case considered the rider had a full licence without the restriction in place, the point in dispute was how long he had held that licence. |
Because they didn't consider "A<=25kW" as a full license.
Qyburn wrote: | For what it's worth to my mind if the insurer only accepts full or provisional, then the question relates to the licence group which permits you to ride the bike concerned. |
So, you do disagree with their decision?
Hint: how much power does a Honda CD200 Benley make? ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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M.C |
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M.C Super Spammer
Joined: 29 Sep 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 17:36 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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arry wrote: | Rogerborg wrote: |
As you've found, comparison sites and most brokers are too pig ignorant to know the basics of motorcycle licensing and only offer you a choice between "complete lie" (provisional) and "not the whole truth (full). |
Agree entirely with everything typed Roger. But I would just make sure..... if you tap through the comparison site and through to the provider's portal side to complete the policy, they MAY have the correct options for you to select.
The problem, as a provider, with plugging into a comparison site is you have to use their question set and drop downs. Sometimes (OK quite a lot of the time) theirs doesn't map very well and there's no way they're going to change it, even if it is dogshit, because then all the other providers have to redo their mapping process.
In summary, just be careful what's put in at the front end matches what comes out of the back end and if it doesn't, do take the time to review the quote on the provider's side of the process. |
They don't always let you. Had this with my car insurance policy, I couldn't review before buying it
Rogerborg wrote: | The backstory to that though is that it was an eBike policy and they are/were one of the very, very few insurers to actually offer A1, A2 and A licence categories. |
IIRC it was a category they made up, there was no A2 category back then, there was an A2 test which got you an 'A' restricted licence. |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 18:36 - 11 Dec 2017 Post subject: |
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M.C wrote: | IIRC [A2] was a category [eBike] made up, there was no A2 category back then, there was an A2 [test bike] which got you an 'A' restricted licence. |
Spot on, nearly. However, back in the paper counterpart days, DVLA decided to record previous entitlement as "A2" even though on the licence it was A with a "<= 25kW" endorsement on it.
When challenged, DVLA told me that they were unaware of this, or stealing 2 years of entitlement when they upgraded 25kW to A, causing any issues.
De facto, everyone knew what must have been meant by an "A2 licence" back then though, like when people talk about "doing their DAS".
Where it became a giggle was when eBike and the DVLA kept the same categories after A2 became an Actual Thing. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 6 years, 180 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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