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Selling cat b bike ?

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Chuckyfzr
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Selling cat b bike ? Reply with quote

Is it legal to sell a cat b bike , with the log book ?
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Re: Selling cat b bike ? Reply with quote

Chuckyfzr wrote:
Is it legal to sell a cat b bike , with the log book ?


Legal; yes - I believe so, I've yet to see any legislative change but that doesn't mean DVLA haven't scribbled their own rules down and treat them as The Law. Difficult to do, since the log book will have gone to the insurer before they'd have paid the loss, and DVLA won't issue a new one; absolutely.
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Chuckyfzr
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

the logbook is still there the bike was bought back from insurance company. on hpi it shows cat b
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:14 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuckyfzr wrote:
the logbook is still there the bike was bought back from insurance company. on hpi it shows cat b


From when?
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Chuckyfzr
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

bike war written off month back but was bought back from insurance company , they never took log book or anything . just writ off the bike as cat b
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:31 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuckyfzr wrote:
bike war written off month back but was bought back from insurance company , they never took log book or anything . just writ off the bike as cat b


That's outside of the Code of Practice for the Categorisation of Motor Vehicle Salvage; which can be found here:
https://www.abi.org.uk/globalassets/files/publications/public/motor/2017/09/salvage-cop-v10-september-2017.pdf

As per usual they've not really thought it through Laughing

What is clear is that if the insurer has told DVLA then DVLA won't reissue a log book for it, regardless of whether there's any case for that in law..... #fite.
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Chuckyfzr
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh rite . if the bike is sold and the buyers name is put on the log book would the dvla fine me ? the buyer is a trader
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arry
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PostPosted: 17:48 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chuckyfzr wrote:
oh rite . if the bike is sold and the buyers name is put on the log book would the dvla fine me ? the buyer is a trader


The DVLA have no grounds to do so as far as I can see; the process should be that the salvager does what's expected of them. This having not gone to a salvager, I don't think is your problem.

I think it would be just about hilarious to pull one over a dealer Laughing

But TBH this is all pretty new and fresh, so who knows where they'd go?
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 17:51 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, the DVLA will not "fine" you. Firstly, they can't "fine" anyone. Secondly, it is not and never has been an offence to sell a vehicle just because it's been written off, in any "category".

The only salient points are:

Is it roadworthy? It is an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle, which doesn't stop the likes of Vince Candelin doing it with "spares or repair, not for road use" contracts. Protect yourself similarly if you think it's going to be an issue.

Will DVLA issue a log book to the new keeper? They say they won't for a vehicle that they've been told has been written off as non-repairable. But given that "cat B" is an obsolete term, and that the same code of practice requires the insurer to secure the V5C, then I'd question whether it's even been done properly.

You could ask the DVLA whether there's a no-repair, no-issue marker against it, and if so bawww.

You could also bawww to arry's cartel about the entry on the MIAFTR being well bogus, innit, cuz you have the V5C and how could you have that if it's been written off, cuz?

https://www.mib.org.uk/managing-insurance-data/mib-managed-services/cue-miaftr/

" if you wish to contact us regarding a complaint, or any other query relating to [the MIAFTR] databases, please contact MIB on on 0345 1652803 (freephone) or at dataprotection@mib.org.uk."

In any case, that's not your problem. It's an issue for the new keeper, and in a private sale, your emptor better caveat.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 20:32 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't buy it. Look for better. No dealer would dare sell a Cat B, Vince aside.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 23:38 - 16 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Don't buy it. Look for better. No dealer would dare sell a Cat B, Vince aside.

Think he's selling Smile
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 17 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

M.C wrote:
Paddy. wrote:
Don't buy it. Look for better. No dealer would dare sell a Cat B, Vince aside.

Think he's selling Smile


Still stands Laughing he was asking about buying a clapped out fzr the other day. I wouldn't buy off him.
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truslack
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PostPosted: 11:36 - 17 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought my bike back from insurance company, rode it for a few months, sold it to a friend who rode it for 12 months....only when reminiscing a few years down the line and doing a HPI on it did we find out it had been a cat B the whole time (I thought it was a cat C)

Both of us insured and taxed it fine, and nothing was said by DVLA when I sold it.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 17 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Then vs now. Now, if it's been ratted out to DVLA as "non repairable" (A or B in cartel parlance) then they should refuse to issue a new V5C.

I say "should" in the sense of "they have decided". I don't believe there's any legislative basis for this, it's just the DVLA colluding with the cartel.
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nowhere.elysium
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PostPosted: 12:51 - 17 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paddy. wrote:
Still stands Laughing he was asking about buying a clapped out fzr the other day. I wouldn't buy off him.

Christ, now there's a sign of the end times.
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Tierbirdy
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PostPosted: 01:09 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sold my cat B FZS600 after it got wrote off last year. Advertised it as such on eBay "spares/repairs" 99p start no reserve.

Never heard any rage-face from the buyer so can only assume they either got a new log-book or just dont care.
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angryjonny
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PostPosted: 11:00 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It is an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle

In all circumstances? So I can't sell on an unfinished project because I haven't got around to doing the brakes yet, for example?

There have been plenty of episodes of Wheeler Dealers where Mike has test driven on "private land" because the wheels all point in different directions or the gearbox is made of Lego. Are the sellers committing an offence in each of these?
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TheMadRatter
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PostPosted: 11:29 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
It is an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle


Only if you are trying to sell it as a roadworthy vehicle.

I can sell you a vehicle in any condition, as long as I'm honest about it's condition.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

angryjonny wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
It is an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle

In all circumstances?

Not all, there is a defence.

TheMadRatter wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
It is an offence to sell an unroadworthy vehicle

Only if you are trying to sell it as a roadworthy vehicle.

That's not the defence.

TheMadRatter wrote:
I can sell you a vehicle in any condition, as long as I'm honest about it's condition.

Not without committing an offence, you can't.

There's is a specific defence that applies, but it's not satisfied by a mere description of the vehicle.

It's clearly spelled out in primary legislation, and it'll be more instructive if you find and read it for yourself. Do you fancy doing that, then we can have an informed debate on the issue.
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Not without committing an offence, you can't.

Say I am half way through a restoration and I decide to sell my vehicle?

No MOT, no brakes, no wiring, no lights etc.
Just a rolling chassis, part filled body and an engine that's not run for 22 years.

That would be unroadworthy as you can get.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 16:28 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Pjay wrote:
Rogerborg wrote:
Not without committing an offence, you can't.

Say I am half way through a restoration and I decide to sell my vehicle?

You can do it legally. Normally I'd just cite the legislation, but now that my dander's up, I'd like TheMadRatter to look it up and find out why you (or Vince Candelin) need to do a bit more than say "not roadworthy".

If there's no takers, I'll blab it later.
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GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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Pjay
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PostPosted: 16:32 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
If there's no takers, I'll blab it later.


Good plan.
I only asked as you're the goto man on legislation.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 16:43 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rogerborg wrote:
Pjay wrote:

Say I am half way through a restoration and I decide to sell my vehicle?

You can do it legally. Normally I'd just cite the legislation, but now that my dander's up, I'd like TheMadRatter to look it up and find out why you (or Vince Candelin) need to do a bit more than say "not roadworthy".

If there's no takers, I'll blab it later.

I thought Vince slipped Spares or Repairs into the paperwork and hoped you didn't notice?
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DrDonnyBrago
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75
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DrSnoosnoo
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 18 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

After reading the link supplied, if in a listing of spares or repairs, should one write; "this vehicle must not be used on the public highway until it is repaired and is fit for use. Purchase of this vehicle is considered as acceptance of this fact by the buyer" ?
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