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Alien Moto (Alternative to leather suits)

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Jayy
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PostPosted: 18:04 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Alien Moto (Alternative to leather suits) Reply with quote

After watching a few documentaries about animal produce etc, I wondered when someone said to a protester was he sure everything he was wearing was vegan / animal friendly?

I wondered if there were any alternatives to animal leather for bikers and came across this:-

http://www.alienmoto.se/Alien-Moto-Product.html

Anyone heard or have an experience with alternative leather products? There's a lot of claims on there about it being better and this and that.

*I'm not a vegan / vegetarian, it's about whether they are better than leather suits?


Last edited by Jayy on 20:42 - 29 Jan 2018; edited 2 times in total
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 18:24 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you want decent abrasion resistance, you use leather. If there were better, all the textile jackets would be yelling from the rooftops about it.

It's another company cashing in on peoples squeamishness about where products come from.

Before anyone jumps on the "you don't know!" (It's BCF, it's unlikely, but just in case) - I worked in several abbatoirs, I know better than you how animal derived products get to us.
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Stallion.
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PostPosted: 18:25 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://pics.me.me/that-feeling-you-get-when-youre-not-vegan-funny-5787796.png
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:18 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

"We use two different fabrics to line our jeans and products, one is a para-aramid fabric, (most of the time we use the brand Kelvar(R)) and the other is our associate Factories own fabric which has been perfected over years of research and development called Titanite(R)."

Basically they're kevlar jeans.

"If you want the highest possible abrasion resistance we recommend Beast one piece leathers"

Wink
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
If there were better, all the textile jackets would be yelling from the rooftops about it.


What a ridiculous statement.

All those companies looking to make mega profits would be screaming, "HEY GUYS, THERE'S MUCH BETTER MATERIALS OUT THERE BUT LEATHER IS CHEAP AS SHIT AND WE MAKE SOOOO MUCH MONEY FROM YOU IT'S UNREAL".

I'm not a vegan or vegetarian, this is not about ethics to me but those documentaries got me wondering so I started looking.

Ignore that Road Skin for the moment, I'm more interested in the 1 piece suits as I need one in summer anyway.

Ste wrote:
"We use two different fabrics to line our jeans and products, one is a para-aramid fabric, (most of the time we use the brand Kelvar(R)) and the other is our associate Factories own fabric which has been perfected over years of research and development called Titanite(R)."

Basically they're kevlar jeans.

"If you want the highest possible abrasion resistance we recommend Beast one piece leathers"

Wink


I removed the Road Skin site from the end of my post as it's confusing / irrelevant to the original question about if Alien Moto is better than leather.

If you look at that guys sales videos (Road Skin) he doesn't half waffle on some shite, so much so that it puts you off all most.
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c_dug
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PostPosted: 21:02 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think Leather probably is about the best we can do at the moment.

It isn't the best abrasion resistant material. But bike gear does much more than just provide abrasion resistance, and it's all about compromise.

For instance if we were going to shoot somebody down an endless tarmac strip, say from a canon mounted a few inches from the ground, we'd probably choose a suit made entirely of tungsten carbide or something similarly hard. You've got no impact to worry about, nor weight considerations, or movement restrictions, size limitations, ventilation, cost, blah blah blah...

At the other end of the scale, if you were looking to make a suit for protecting your million pound asset as they rode a motorcycle around a race track at upwards of 200mph, with the risk of falls of say 2 meters (high side) and whip lash injuries, while being flexible enough to ride a bike, well ventilated enough to keep cool, lightweight enough to be comfortable AND abrasive resistant enough for the expected slides...

You'd make something like motogp riders wear.

If something better was out there, they'd be using it in racing by now. They do modify them with things like titanium plates in abrasion zones, and airbags in collars, your best bet is to lay down a couple of grand on a top of the line race suit.

Or compromise!
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
If there were better, all the textile jackets would be yelling from the rooftops about it.

What a ridiculous statement.


How? Why?

If there was a better material to make bike gear out of, every manufacturer would be all over it and screaming about how it's better than leather. Kevlar lining helps, I have plenty of Kevlar (or Aramid) lined gear, but overall, it's still not as good.

As for cheap - Bike leather isn't cheap, never has been and probably never will be, given the source and manufacturing methods. It's the best grade available from a hide, which is a fairly small percentage of the total hide, and not all hides have a worthwhile amount needed for bigger panels of decent, quality leather. Kangaroo leather is another step up from that, with much less hide available.That "Genuine leather" you see? Yeah, that's really cheap. That's also lower than the actual lowest grade of leather, it's a marketed leather derivative, and should not be confused with full or top grain, which is what bike gear is made from. Only "Bonded leather" is worse.

I've also worked in a Tannery Wink
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Stallion.
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

^^^^ I find it amusing when armchair experts start arguing with one another.
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struan80
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PostPosted: 21:30 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

All I know is that we used to use Kevlar, and most still do, to add the strength to subsea hydraulic controls umbilicals, bundles and jumpers.

From my experience with working with it I would argue that it is a strong as fuck but doesn't deal with abrasion very well unless coated by say leather.

I would trust leather over anything, well at least in my head which is all that matters.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bodyguard wrote:
^^^^ I find it amusing when armchair experts start arguing with one another.


I find it amusing when you stop gobbling cocks long enough to... oh, wait, you don't stop....
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 29 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Abrasion resistance isn't the be-all and end all. Friction is an important factor.

You tend to slide further in leather, kevelar tends to grip the road. It stops you more quickly but it also tends to roll/flip you.

So there's a pay off there. On a track I'd want leather every time, slide smoothly to a halt in the gravel trap rather than doing a 150mph ragdoll impression. On the road, not as convinced. There's more to hit. Stopping more rapidly probably has its merits.

I don't know if this variable has ever been properly quantified and compared.
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struan80
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PostPosted: 01:40 - 30 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

You could argue that friction is abrasion in these circumstances. Strength is tensile only with Kevlar type material.
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GT200Fan79
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PostPosted: 08:08 - 30 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Bodyguard wrote:
^^^^ I find it amusing when armchair experts start arguing with one another.


I find it amusing when you stop gobbling cocks long enough to... oh, wait, you don't stop....


He’s good at it though. Benefits of being all gums and no teeth.

Anyway, circuits insist on leather so any alternatives are somewhat moot.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 10:44 - 30 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

struan80 wrote:
You could argue that friction is abrasion in these circumstances. Strength is tensile only with Kevlar type material.


Or is it? An abrasion test will measure how long it takes to wear through a material. A friction test will check how much resistance to movement it has agains the same material.

So. Take for example sintered brake pads. They have a higher coefficient of friction but abrade less rapidly than standard pads.

Arguably leather is both lower friction AND more abrasion resistant. You certainly get more than one big crash out of a race suit.
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Rogerborg
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 30 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

GT200Fan79 wrote:
Anyway, circuits insist on leather so any alternatives are somewhat moot.

That does rather cock a leg over the argument that if there were a better alternative to leather then racers would use it.

It also means that there's no incentive for any company to develop "race textiles".

I suspect that kangaroos may not be the peak of technological evolution.

Anyway, inB4 Tef: dress for the RIDE, not the SLIDE.
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AshWebster
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PostPosted: 11:35 - 30 Jan 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

isn't hippo/rhino skin bulletproof? (maybe because of the thickness i guess)... well we can't go around skinning endangered animals!

leather is the cheapest, easiest to produce and won't run out anytime soon. It's proven over time to not give you road rash even when doing stupid speeds (see track racers).

as for your arguement to can we make alternatives out of man-made materials? possibly, but for nowhere near anything like the cost of normal leathers.
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Jayy
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PostPosted: 00:38 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

AshWebster wrote:
i
as for your arguement to can we make alternatives out of man-made materials? possibly, but for nowhere near anything like the cost of normal leathers.


My argument was not about the cost of alternative suits, just whether there are any and how good they are?

Leather is cheap and they can charge high premiums for the suits.

Does a £300 suit protect you as much as a £3,000 suit (leather for leather) ?

Does a £30 helmet protect you as much as a £1,300 one?

If leather is the best shit around, then that's cool, I'm not trying to fucking persuade anyone otherwise, just wondering!
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duhawkz
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PostPosted: 00:58 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jayy wrote:

My argument was not about the cost of alternative suits, just whether there are any and how good they are?

Leather is cheap and they can charge high premiums for the suits.

Does a £300 suit protect you as much as a £3,000 suit (leather for leather) ?
Does a £30 helmet protect you as much as a £1,300 one?


Its all down to fit for the most part

if you look at sharp ratings for helmets are a few budget helmets that perform better than shoei or arai helmets at 10x the price
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 01:28 - 03 Feb 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm a longtime fussy eater and truth be told would prefer if I didn't wear leather. I do wear it though as it gives me better protection than textiles.
I know this as I have slid across a road at over 40mph and wore a hole through the knee and elbow of my Rev-it textiles.

I do also wear kevlar jeans which like textiles being a looser fit could cause me similar problems but occasionally it is too warm for leather trousers.

I'm sure there will be products available that surpass leather but seeing as it's a byproduct from all you meat eating murdering tw@ts #LoveYaReally I can't see it being replaced for a long time if at all.
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