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Fine for new insurance.

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jpno5
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Fine for new insurance. Reply with quote

My bike was off the road for a few month, it was at the local garage, during that time my insurance was up and i didn't renew as i wasn't sure if the bike was even getting back on the road.

Got a letter through last week saying i've been fined 100 quid for no insurance after the dvla carried out a random check.

My thinking was, the garage has trade insurance, it's off the road and on private property. I never realised i had to sorn the bike. Bike was still taxed.

Is there any valid grounds for appeal?
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Hahadumball
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 23:54 - 04 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

the problem is you didnt fill in a sorn

suck it up
go to court and plead insanity and hope

only choices you have

you should have had a warning letter too..

but anyway, no, the garage wont cover you
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Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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Kentol750
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Joined: 24 May 2016
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Yep Reply with quote

Thumbs Up Like he said.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

Your bike would have to have been registered by the garage on the MIB database to count as "covered" by their fleet policy.

Claiming it was covered by their fleet policy could potentially drop THEM in the shit too because they have a legal requirement to keep the MIB database up to date.

So no. You're guilty of being the keeper of an uninsured motor vehicle contrary to section 141 of the road traffic act and are pretty much stitched up lik ea kipper.

You have two options. One is to pay them £100 to go away. The other is to wait and see if they take you to court. They have six months to do so (give or take) after which the magistrates court act prevents a magistrate hearing the case (providing you lead with that little gem immediately you get into court, I'd speak to the clerk about it just before the case).

I did the latter, they had me in court a week before the 6 months was up. I went in and pleaded my case, was appologised to by the magistrate who then fined me £250 and a victim surcharge because he had no other option.

Of some interest is that the DVLA prosecutor offered to accept the original £100 bribe out of court settlement in a side room only minutes beofre the case was due to be heard. I went to court on general principal because if the court fines me, the fine goes into central funds, the DVLA don't get it.

So you could hedge your bets and wait it out then if they do decide to prosecute, go into the court and hope they still offer the £100.

Up to you.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 12:33 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Re: Fine for new insurance. Reply with quote

jpno5 wrote:
Got a letter through last week saying i've been fined 100 quid for no insurance after the dvla carried out a random check.

Hold your horses.

Did you receive a letter from a court telling you that you have been prosecuted, tried and convicted in your absence and that you now owe the court £100?

If not, then you haven't been fined.

If you received a letter from the DVLA telling you that you've been very naughty and that they want £100 from you in order for them not to prosecute you, then either insure or SORN the bike now, and forget about it.

Treat it seriously if and when an actual court summons hits your mat.

Whatever you do, don't contact the "DVLA". You'll be put through to whichever group of ghouls is running their collections racket at the moment, who will have no interest in anything other than rinsing you for the money.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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jpno5
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 09 Feb 2016
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 05 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

yeah i'll just suck it up and pay it, it's anything to get money out you these days >.< I never went to court etc, wasn't actually living at my registered address so was late in getting my mail. literally just got a letter this morning saying its now with Glasgow justice of the peace court and passed for immediate enforcement.
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Hahadumball
World Chat Champion



Joined: 07 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 00:23 - 06 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

however...
do you not remember posting off a declaration of sorn...
____________________
Fin: no matter how much I look at It I can't understand what was going through my head, all I remember is going about 80 and redlining it to stop it seizing.
360 Deg... Five 1/4 turns. :- Teflon-Mike 18 Jan 2015
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 09:05 - 06 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

jpno5 wrote:
yeah i'll just suck it up and pay it, it's anything to get money out you these days >.< I never went to court etc, wasn't actually living at my registered address so was late in getting my mail. literally just got a letter this morning saying its now with Glasgow justice of the peace court and passed for immediate enforcement.


Yeah. But was it an actual summons? I'm pretty certain it wasn't, you'll know it is because it'll say so in no uncertain terms, it will tell you when and where you are required to attend court, for what offence you are being charged, it will have a list of the evidence they intend to put before the court and a form for you to fill in about your income to be used when setting the level of a fine.

Anything else up to that point is hot air and bluster so don't panic.

Despined_By_Ex wrote:

however...
do you not remember posting off a declaration of sorn...


It wouldn't matter if he did or not, the insurance legislation requires the defendant to provide proof that they posted it.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Rogerborg
nimbA



Joined: 26 Oct 2010
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 06 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
the insurance legislation requires the defendant to provide proof that they posted it.

Continuous insurance requires that, because it is perverse.

I believe the case law in Englandshire is that the SORN declaration also requires the defendant to make their case. Sadly, I can't find the case reference.

Scotch courts might still be up for an Interpretations Act defence.
____________________
Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike
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johnsmith222
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 00:18 - 07 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:


It wouldn't matter if he did or not, the insurance legislation requires the defendant to provide proof that they posted it.


Could he try writing to the DVLA and explaining this (assuming he did 100% for sure post his SORN notification) and see what happens. Just making sure he doesn't pay?

I posted a V5C for a bike I sold a year ago, but ended up getting a tax reminder for it and found out the DVLA still had it in my name.

I prepared myself to experience all sorts of BS for failure to notify change of keeper etc. Expecting a court situation as I had heard about.

Nope, the DVLA were nothing but helpful and sorted it out rapidly once I wrote to them.

That said, the situation might be different if my first realisation was a naughty boy slip, rather than a tax reminder.
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stinkwheel
Bovine Proctologist



Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 07 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

bluezedd wrote:

Could he try writing to the DVLA and explaining this (assuming he did 100% for sure post his SORN notification) and see what happens. Just making sure he doesn't pay?

I posted a V5C for a bike I sold a year ago, but ended up getting a tax reminder for it and found out the DVLA still had it in my name.

I prepared myself to experience all sorts of BS for failure to notify change of keeper etc. Expecting a court situation as I had heard about.

Nope, the DVLA were nothing but helpful and sorted it out rapidly once I wrote to them.

That said, the situation might be different if my first realisation was a naughty boy slip, rather than a tax reminder.


The department that does the change of details isn't the department that trawls the database looking for people they can demand money from. Had the new owner noticed and sent in a form/web form requesting a V5, which would automatically trigger the money people, you'd probably be looking at a demand for £200.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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johnsmith222
World Chat Champion



Joined: 26 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: 17:45 - 07 May 2018    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
bluezedd wrote:

Could he try writing to the DVLA and explaining this (assuming he did 100% for sure post his SORN notification) and see what happens. Just making sure he doesn't pay?

I posted a V5C for a bike I sold a year ago, but ended up getting a tax reminder for it and found out the DVLA still had it in my name.

I prepared myself to experience all sorts of BS for failure to notify change of keeper etc. Expecting a court situation as I had heard about.

Nope, the DVLA were nothing but helpful and sorted it out rapidly once I wrote to them.

That said, the situation might be different if my first realisation was a naughty boy slip, rather than a tax reminder.


The department that does the change of details isn't the department that trawls the database looking for people they can demand money from. Had the new owner noticed and sent in a form/web form requesting a V5, which would automatically trigger the money people, you'd probably be looking at a demand for £200.


I guess it makes sense then. I wouldn't have been certain had I got a demand for money that it would have been treated the same way.

A real shame, as I actually did post the V5C, as I remember walking up to the post box after he bought it, as it was a nice day. There must be many people that get in trouble even though the hadn't done anything wrong.

I was expecting £80 demand or something. For £200 I'd definitely be going to court, even if it meant failing and paying more.
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