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Jimiller99 |
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Jimiller99 L Plate Warrior
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha |
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha World Chat Champion
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bigdom86 |
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bigdom86 Traffic Copper
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Kentol750 |
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Kentol750 World Chat Champion
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NJD |
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NJD World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:46 - 21 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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You do u-turn like this, yo (11:30 if it doesn't start there automatically).
All u-turns are to the right so you only ever need to practice those, regardless of what way the test pad you go around.
In terms of technique I'd probably keep the foot on the peg, firmly, to avoid the possibility of allowing the examiner to say you weren't in control of the bike; although, in theory, should only be an issue if you wobble or put your foot down but examiners so meh.. who knows. ____________________ The do it all, T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶,̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶l̶u̶m̶p̶,̶ ̶C̶h̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶N̶o̶o̶d̶l̶e̶ |
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UnknownStuntm... |
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UnknownStuntm... World Chat Champion
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P. |
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P. Red Rocket
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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Jimiller99 |
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Jimiller99 L Plate Warrior
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
Joined: 01 Jun 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 01:45 - 22 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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I assume you are practicing on your own bike, therefore 125.
Modern teaching for slow-speed maneuvers including U-Turn, I HATE, but involved drag and slip... using higher revs on the throttle, slipping the clutch to under-drive the gearbox, and holding bike back on the back brake..... HOW would you hold back on the back brake, if your foot isn't on the right hand peg?
Correctly seated.... at all times... or a fail (depending how harsh man with clip-board be)
SO whether fail or not, its NOT good form, dont teach yourself to do it or try get away with it.
HEAD UP, where you look is where you go.
Tricks....
Dont start your turn too early......
Biggest fail with U-Turn is you look where you want to go.... and bike goes there.... so you drift towards the center of your road, before you start, then start running out of road, and trying to tighten the turn the whole while.... fixate on the fact you are running out of road, look at the kerb... and go even wider! Hover foot, and bang down, to stop toppling.
JINK LEFT, to go RIGHT!
Sounds stupid, BUT... before starting your turn, look the WRONG way, check full width of space you have, and when you start the turn, jink LEFT first to get the bike over as far as you can and give yourself most width to do the 'U' which, if you do it right, should be more of a bell-flask shape.
Now, you have made that jink, the 'flick' to the right should give you full room for your turn, and turning to the left, will mean that the turn to the right, comes more naturally as a progression of straightening up from the quick left at the start, the bike will just carry on tilting through the upright as you turn to the right, and bring you into the right hand turn, with most space, and most steer already done, so you have most room, and less steering to do the other half of the turn.
DONT fixate, on the space you have, look where you want to go, and almost as soon as you have tipped in to right hand turn, DONT look where you are, or where you are going, look where you WANT TO BE... as you look over your shoulder to the right, your shoulders will twist that way, your arms will pull bars that way, you will GO that way, and you will complete the turn almost without any conciouse thought.
KEEP FEET ON THE PEGS!
Even if you dont use drag and slip, makes it look like you could.... if little else, but foot is over back brake....
Yeah.... bang down the boot... fantastic, bike dont fall over.... instead you clubber the back of your shin with the ruddy footpeg.. you are STILL as want to go over and down.... but bike will still be moving! So what do you do? Grab the front! Now front locks, back caries on moving, forks twist and you go down in a tangle and it gets messy! So JUST dont do it!
Keep your feet on the pegs!
Bike will go round, and IF you run out of road, DONT PANIC.... use back brake; make safe stop, and shove bike back-wards and do a 3-point rather than a U... OK wont pass you a bike test.... but wont cost you a new mirror and brake lever either!
contentious trick... COUNTER LEAN..... bikes tilt-to-turn.... roll a tuppence down a table, as it starts to tip, it starts to turn, more it tips tighter the turn it makes...... this is how bikes steer too.
More bar-steer you use to make a turn, the more upright you hold the bike, the more disadvantageous the geometry, as the steering wants to 'self center' and straighten up.
Going slow, you will be loath to lean the bike, for fear of falling over; feels you dont have the speed to hold bike up... so tendency is to try hold bike more upright, and turn bars more.
BUT, do that, and you have to turn bars more, more the bike will 'fight' you trying to straighten that bar steer, and so you get into a cycle, of trying to turn the bars more and more, and hold bike upright, and you dont turn, you run out of road, and end up in a tangle on the floor.
Rules say you should keep your arse in the saddle..... I know... this was how I failed my 'part one' test, thirty years ago.....*... but you DONT have to shift your bum of the saddle to lean the wrong way... you have a waste... you can tilt your upper body from above it.... As you do so.... first bike will lean beneath you and turn tighter... second you will, leaning upper body to the left, naturally push on left bar, pull on right and tighten the bar steer... Take note... folk trying this for the first time, will make a MUCH tighter turn than they expect, and panick, trying to compensate...... be warned.
Its a completely DIFFERENT way of tackling a U-Turn, so as Yoda "Unlearn you must", get the old way out your brain, and practice, practice, practice, NOT doing it badly.
- Jink to the left, make room
- Hinge from the waste, LEAN the bike
- LOOK where you want to be
Whole maneuver will fall naturally into sequence, bike will turn very very tightly, and with a LOT less effort than trying to hold it bolt upright and do it all on the bars, and it WONT fall over.. it will go round, and sweetly, with feet on the pegs, covering back brake either to use Drag'n'(effing!)Slip, if expected, or not.... BUT without hanging a boot, which even IF examiner doesn't give insta-fail for on grounds you are not correctly seated or in full control, WILL display lack of confidence, and incline them to a fail there or elsewhere on test.
LAST thing, 99% of riding a bike is in the throttle. Not turning the bars, not leaning, not using the brakes, its all in the right wrist.
Get up some speed BEFORE you try and maneuver; gets you balanced; roll off, and jink left and reverse to right, the rolling off will de-settle the bike to help you steer, you aren't fighting it from the off; as you have tipped into the U, get on the throttle.... GENTLY... use the throttle to drive you round rather than coast; seems counter intuitive to a slow speed maneuver, but its making the bike work for you rather than against; as you pass the mid point, you can use more throttle, this will naturally make the bike both drive round the U, and try and sit up, you WONT have anywhere near the sensation of 'toppling' that makes you want to hang a boot, and it will make the bike go stable, and go round, not drift wide.
Its all on the throttle; exploit it**.
~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~ ~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~~ ~
** Slow-Speed lean anecdote: I absolutely scared the hell out of a forum member here a few years ago, taking him round a Car-Park, pillion, scraping the foot-pegs of a 125 doing 'slow-speed' CBT/Mod 1 manouvers, like this, on the throttle, and leaning the bike.
It is incredible just how slow you can go, and how far you can lean, with just a little balence, even with a scared shitless lump wobbling about on the bunny convinced you are going to topple, trying to lean the other way....
Find a car park, and try it, (Without the pillion, is probably best for starters ) practice it, learn how far you CAN lean a bike, and just how slow IF you do it on the throttle.
Most of your reason for hanging a boot is purely lack of confidence, NOT believing that the bike will stay up; and trying to 'practice' the things you are doing, 'wrong' to pander to that sensation, will only ingrain them; so go unlearn, learn how far you can lean and how slow you can do it, to get past that inhibitor trhat is making you do it wrong or badly, to re-train your brain to do it right, and get the confidence to do it right, and NOT have any question marks hanging over test.
* Bum in Saddle anecdote; I took tests before the split Mods. We didn't have CBT either, we could wobble out on the road with no more than filling a form at the post office.... which was something of an aptitude test in itself back then! But still.
Before booking a motorcycle test, we had to pass the 'Part 1' which was sort of like a 'tested' CBT, that included things like the slalom and U-Turn.
I had been doing school boy trials for some time, and the 'school' I did my part 1 with, shared a bit of the old BSA factory, where Vale-Onslow has set up a sort of motorbike youth club and trials course, to keep kids from hacking nicked bikes down the canal.... it was right by the canal, and most of the bikes, I discovered were nicked! but donated to the club by West-Mids police, when they couldn't find the owners!
But, having done trials there, seemed a good idea, after much trecking around the county looking for motorbikes on Sunday mornings in Woolies car-parks and other obscure places for one of these mythical 'Part One' schools.... like I said, was more an aptitude test than a motorcycle one, in them days! Seemed a good idea to use this place next door to the trials park; not least 'cos they hired Honda H100's to do it on... and I figured I could save buying a 125 testing on their school bikes, and then riding one of my 250's on the road.
Honda H100's have a peculiarly small frame... I am a lanky git, at 6'2"ish.. I dont have a particularly dainty frame... trying to do the manouvers on a H100 was then something of a double challenge, I couldn't turn the bars more than a few degrees without my knees getting in the way... even if I slid back on the saddle to the pillion seat.... there was some muttering when I eventually passed about my 'unorthodox' riding position, and whether, after giving up, and doing the cone-slalom, trials style, stoof on the pegs, on the back-wheel, lust sort of dropping the front between each pair.... and told, patiently "You are NOT supposed to be in full control if your arse isn't in the saddle.... and BOTH Effing tyres are on the effing FLOOR!" Lol. When the on the last attempt, slid all the way back onto the pillion, with barely my ballsack over the pillion seat and the tail lamp trying to give me an enema, whether this 'counted' as having my bum on the saddle! I did keep effing tyres on effing floor, BTW... for some reason they really likes that, and wouldn't yeild on the point!
ANYWAY... remember bikes is built to tilt, and they tilt to turn, and 99% of riding one is in the throttle. Stop practicing doing it at best, badly, at worst 'wrong', go practice doing it RIGHT, and use tips provided to do that a bit better, if you want to. ____________________ My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?' |
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Jimiller99 |
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Jimiller99 L Plate Warrior
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
Joined: 26 Oct 2010 Karma :
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Posted: 09:46 - 22 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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Well, it's easy to get into bad habits, or to imagine that some ritual is necessary because you did it the first half dozen times and didn't fall off. I'd snap yourself out of this one sharpish though, at least for test purposes. ____________________ Biking is 1/20th as dangerous as horse riding.
GONE: HN125-8, LF-250B, GPz 305, GPZ 500S, Burgman 400 // RIDING: F650GS (800 twin), Royal Enfield Bullet Electra 500 AVL, Ninja 250R because racebike |
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The_west |
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The_west Borekit Bruiser
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Johnnythefox |
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Johnnythefox Traffic Copper
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andyscooter |
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andyscooter World Chat Champion
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Posted: 16:52 - 22 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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did tef say tidy feet
please someone let me know ____________________ gilera runner vxr200 (chavped)
if its spelt wrong its my fat fingers and daft auto correct on my tablet |
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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NJD |
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NJD World Chat Champion
Joined: 11 Mar 2015 Karma :
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Posted: 22:45 - 22 Jun 2018 Post subject: |
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Johnnythefox wrote: | Remember two life savers, one as you set off and one just before you turn. |
Aye; to clarify, though, that's a life saver over the left and right shoulder before moving anywhere and then a right shoulder check shortly before you turn -- imitating that if you were on the roads you'd be checking to ensure the path you wish to ride is free from hazards.
Perform a shoulder check over your left and right before moving away at all times during the Module One test; anytime you stopped dead you shoulder check before you move away but shoulder checks after you stop are not needed.
A theme you'll want to continue on your Module Two, mind; I got a "why on earth were you performing a life saver there when clearly it's not what you've been taught and it wasn't needed.." on my first A2 > A fail debrief but you can't receive faults for over checking.
Out on the road it's a little harder to say when you should and shouldn't shoulder check, and that's a bit ahead in time, but doesn't hurt to get into the habit of a quick look over each shoulder while the lights are on amber, after being red, or waiting for a car two ahead to pull away before you start checking; heck on my first A2 > A attempt I even used the shadow in the road ahead to gauge when the cars ahead were moving away and it was time to check giving me enough time to pull away -- and I still failed <sadface.jpg>
It's all a game, mind, and the one thing the instructor said in front of me after the other guy passed, on my second attempt, and I didn't was "what he said about advance training... teaches you to stop riding like a learner;" saying that, though, he didn't really agree with my viewpoint that the entire learning levels are counter productive -- in that they all tell you to do something the level below it doesn't. In summary get your license and crack on doing whatever keeps you on the bike and everyone else alive; I literally give up pretending training schools mean sod all and that the licensing system is anything but a farse. ____________________ The do it all, T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶r̶o̶k̶e̶n̶ ̶o̶n̶e̶,̶ ̶T̶h̶e̶ ̶b̶i̶g̶ ̶l̶u̶m̶p̶,̶ ̶C̶h̶o̶n̶g̶ ̶N̶o̶o̶d̶l̶e̶ |
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Rogerborg |
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Rogerborg nimbA
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Teflon-Mike |
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Teflon-Mike tl;dr
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AshWebster |
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AshWebster Brolly Dolly
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 326 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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