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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 16:52 - 21 Nov 2018 Post subject: Water Supplier dodgy billing |
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Now this is a bit complicated, but I'm sure I'm right here and Southern Water or South East Water are pulling a fast one.
Recently our water in and out, supplied by two different suppliers, merged to one bill. Southern Water do water out, South East Water do water in.
They took this joint bill opportunity to start charging 6 months in advance for standing charge for outgoing water, meaning the first joint 6 monthly bill for waste water included the charge for standing charge and water used for the previous 6 months, as well as the standing charge for the next 6 months, adding over £30 per property to every bill.
Now think about this...if you pay by monthly variable Direct Debit, the idea is that the Direct Debit payments over a 6 month period cover the bill when it's produced at the end of the 6 month period. Say the bill is £124.00 and you've been paying £20 per month for 6 months, you're £4 in debit, so they might up your monthly payment by 80p or so to catch up on the next bill, in it's aim to bring the balance to zero on production of a new bill.
My query is that as you're not paying the monthly DD to pay off an existing bill, you're paying credits towards paying off the next one, when the bill is produced, you've already been paying them for the last 6 months for what you've used. This draws the balance back to as close to 0.00 as possible.
Now this new bill, already paid off from the money you've been throwing at them for the previous 6 months, also includes a future standing charge fee, which they'll always be in your debt for.
For example, you get a bill in January, it's paid by the last 6 month direct debit contributions, leaving your balance at 0.00. You then start paying monthly direct debits from January to June to settle the bill at the end of June. The Bill at the end of June contains a standing charge fee for June to December, but you've been contributing towards this from January already, so you are permanently 6 months in credit with them for standing charge.
If you die or move out of the area, the final bill should be what you've paid in DD payments minus the water you've used since the last bill, plus the unused up to 6 months worth of standing charge from the last bill credited.
Say you leave in September. You have already paid standing charge up until December, in the July bill, so the final bill in September should be for water used July to September, plus 3 months worth of standing charge credited back to you. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Last edited by - on 17:23 - 21 Nov 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 17:19 - 21 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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The plot thickens. Southern Water have said that they do not charge customers in advance for standing charge.
South East Water have taken over their billing, so water in provided by South East Water and Water out by Southern Water, are now on the same bill issued by South Eastern Water.
South East Water always billed 6 months in advance for water in and took the opportunity to do the same for all the Southern Water out customers, when the billing was combined.
So this means, they took a basic money grab of £30 per household as they charged for the previous 6 months as usual but then added on a future 6 months to the same 6 monthly bill, which goes to them, not Southern Water, for services they never actually pay for themselves in advance, but charge for.
It's like me charging a customer for work done, then adding on the next job I haven't done yet, which when I do that job, I'll bill them for the next one and so on..
As Southern Water were not even aware that South East Water had started charging in advance, the customers they supply waste water services to, do you not think this is a bit dodgy from South East Water? ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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Sister Sledge |
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Sister Sledge World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Aug 2018 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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iooi |
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iooi Super Spammer
Joined: 14 Jan 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 21:40 - 21 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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When we paid annual water bill. We got a bill in Feb which set out the monthly charges for the 8 months that we paid over.
So in effect you started in arrears, but finished after in 8 months fully paid up. If you moved after the 8 month. You got a refund
Now we have a water meter, and it is so much cheaper. ____________________ Just because my bike was A DIVVY, does not mean i am...... |
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dydey90 |
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dydey90 World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 22:21 - 21 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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I spent half an hour on the phone with Yorkshire Water today, asking why I’d paid everything for the year, which should have zeroed the credit/debit on my account, but I’m now £116 in debit.
Many explanations of bills, many charge this, charge that, this how it works sir.
Half an hour for them to tell me my usage has doubled and they think there’s a leak, then 40 seconds for me to track down the offending toilet. It’s an extra 6000 litres of water per month they’re billing me for, so they’ll have somebody here as soon as possible. 20th of December. ____________________ This post is probably not serious and shouldn't be taken literally.
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MCN |
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MCN Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Jul 2015 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:11 - 22 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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MCN wrote: | It's how shit works.
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No, it's not. Forget the rebate when leaving, there's more to it than just that.
What SEW are doing here is a blatant money grab from customers, charging them in advance on behalf of SW, for as service SW don't charge in advance for.
I thought it was interesting that SW were unaware that SEW, who do the billing for both companies in a joint bill, were suddenly charging their customers in advance, when they themselves don't charge in advance.
Let's say they have a million customers, this little trick has netted them £30M for offering nothing in return. I'm surprised OFWAT havn't picked them up on this. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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MCN |
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Courier265 |
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Courier265 World Chat Champion
Joined: 01 Oct 2017 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:11 - 23 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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MCN wrote: | The energy companies are the cnuts who invented Billing Subterfuge. I defy anyone to work out what they actually pay for gas and leckie. |
You do come out with some white noise sometimes.
Which bit can't you grasp? My bill is pretty clear, there's a daily standing charge and level of energy used in KwH.
MCN wrote: | There is some deal where one is not allowed to collect rain water and use it at home or you are only allowed to collect so much. Not enough to make a process plant viable. |
Bullshit. I know a bloke who runs a company which installs wells to little groups of houses out in the sticks, this requires no fee or licence. He also runs a mineral water company which extracts millions of litres a year. He pays a tiny fee to the environment agency or whoever per litre.
I collect over 1,000 litres of rainwater and use it to wash the cars with a submersible pump. it's clean water without chalk residue so doesn't smear the cars. I know others who store thousands of litres collected from the house rooves etc and store it in a tank under the lawn. It gets pumped at night up to tanks in the loft for all grey water taps.
Not using charged for tap water makes two savings, water in and reduces your water out charge when on a meter. A cubic metre, or 1,000 litres costs me over £5 by the time I've paid both water firms. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:21 - 23 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Courier265 wrote: | iooi wrote: |
Now we have a water meter, and it is so much cheaper. |
Same at my house, I'm saving a bundle and I'm paying monthly DD. |
In our area it used to be around half the price, but as all new builds have to be on a meter, they've used this excuse to up the metered charges by an average of 8% every year over the last 10 years.
It's now cheaper to be on rated water for a house my size. Mind you, until the vast majority of their customers are on a meter, they wont build a new reservoir.
At the moment, they can call a water shortage and stop people using as much water. With the majority of their customers still on rated water, they charge the same no matter how much water they supply, so it's in their interest to not create enough storage.
Once they sell the majority of their water by the litre, they'll not want to run short of saleable goods. The latest plan to build another reservoir in Kent has been in the planning stages since the 1970's. No other reservoirs have been built even though the population has doubled in the county.
I was always against private companies taking over water, as a need for life utility. They are just taking the piss now and the regulator wont help. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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MCN Super Spammer
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Suntan Sid |
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Suntan Sid World Chat Champion
Joined: 07 May 2009 Karma :
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Ste |
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Ste Not Work Safe
Joined: 01 Sep 2002 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 10:11 - 27 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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Suntan Sid wrote: | MCN wrote: | There is some deal where one is not allowed to collect rain water and use it at home or you are only allowed to collect so much. Not enough to make a process plant viable. |
mpd72 CPT wrote: | Bullshit. I know a bloke who runs a company which installs wells to little groups of houses out in the sticks, this requires no fee or licence. |
It's not bullshit, for the simple reason that the bloke you know doesn't live in Scotland!
Given that I worked in the water industry in Scotland for 20 years, I know what MCN said is correct, in Scotland!
HTH. |
You can't gather water which falls out of the sky in Scotland?
That's odd, you'd better tell Scottish Water then because Scottish Water actively encourage it on an industrial scale with underground tanks.
https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/assets/business/files/water%20byelaws%20documents/rainwaterharvestingfactsheet.pdf
Quote: | Rainwater harvesting
Rainwater harvesting means collecting rainwater from surfaces such as roofs and diverting it to a
collection tank which is normally sited underground. The collected rainwater can then be pumped
through separate identified plumbing systems for flushing toilets, or to outside taps for washing the car or
garden use and for use in some industrial processes.
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Last edited by - on 10:17 - 27 Nov 2018; edited 1 time in total |
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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- Super Spammer
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Diggs |
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Diggs World Chat Champion
Joined: 03 Apr 2007 Karma :
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Posted: 14:56 - 27 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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In England you may collect as much rainwater as you like, provided you are the landowner or have the landowner's permission. The Utilities have nothing to do with it. What you do with it is up to you as well.
If you want to drink your own rainwater, you can. But, you need to pay close attention to how it is stored and filtered because standing water attracts nasties. If you don't catch it directly, i.e. it runs along or under the ground to get to you, you may need it testing regularly to avoid contamination. Around our way, everybody on a private supply has it tested regularly by Environmental Health - not sure if this is a legal requirement, but it certainly makes sense as our hills are covered in sheep-shit etc. ____________________ Now - Speed Triple, old ratty GS550, GSXR750M
Gone (in order of ownership) - Raleigh Runabout, AP50, KH125, GP125, KH250, CBX550, Z400, CB750FII, 250LC, GS550, ZXR750H1, Guzzi Targa, GSX750F, KH250 x2, Bimota SB6R and counting... |
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MCN |
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Ste Not Work Safe
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MCN |
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Posted: 20:47 - 27 Nov 2018 Post subject: |
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MCN wrote: | mpd72 CPT wrote: |
Did you actually bother reading your own link?
There's nothing there which says the collection of rainwater is illegal or limited in Scotland, unless you're now pretending not to be part of Britain.
Quote: | Scare stories like these from abroad may have planted seeds of doubt in the minds of UK citizens regarding the legality or otherwise of rainwater harvesting here in Britain. In fact, it is perfectly legal and actually encouraged by most water companies, especially in the drier south eastern counties where rainfall is significantly less than along the west coast. |
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Yes I did, you upturned umbrella full of spunk.
I'm not like you who just click-posts The Internet. |
If you did, why still post it when it shows you were talking white noise shite as usual?
I’m guessing you just like the sound of your own voice, as it rarely adds anything of substance to anything on here, other than white noise. ____________________ TZR250 2MA road, TZR250 1KT road, TZR250 2MA race, TDR250, YZF-750R Boost colours.
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- Super Spammer
Joined: 22 Oct 2013 Karma :
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 5 years, 190 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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