Honda CB250 RS Clutch Stuck

[St George]

Hi. New to the forum. Live in Essex, have a BSA 650 Thunderbolt, DT175 Yamaha, a Vespa Malossi 210 and a Honda 250 RS.
The Honda has sat since 2005 and has had oil down the plug and turned over on a regular basis. Last week got it started and it ran fine and quiet.
The clutch is stuck fast ( I think ). If I pull the clutch in and kick it over it turns the engine. Saying that if I pull the clutch in it disengages the back wheel but not the engine. Is the power train different to other set ups or am I missing something. My other bikes clutches disengage the engine from the gear box. Thanks.

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

1 Rock it in gear....Try tapping the clutch cover with the rubber handle of a hammer (if you haven't got a rubber mallet). Check the linkage is actually doing its job.

2 Remove kickstart, drop the oil and carefully remove the clutch cover (you may just save the gasket <<<buy a gasket). Out with the rubber hammer again. Bit of gentle prising.

3. Strip clutch and inspected surfaces and condition of metal friction plates.
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[St George]

Why does the clutch disconnect the back wheel but not the gearbox ? Thanks for reply.

[Howling TerrorOutOfOffice]

The clutch disengages and engages the gears(not the engine) which via a sprocket pulling a drivechain turns the rear wheel. That's how it goes.

Your explanation is confusing me so I'll try this tack.


Can you pull in the clutch lever and select a gear?
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[steve the grease]

I agree with Howling terror.
My XL250 Motosport does the same after sitting for a week or two never mind 10 years or more, I start mine up and roll start it on a gentle slope, drop it into gear and ride round holding the clutch in , throttling on and off until it eventually unsticks...........Then it's fine until next time and you wonder what all the fuss was about.


Ive just re read your original post and yes the honda is different..... The kick start drives the gear on the outside of the clutch drum that goes on to the crank gear so if you pull in the clutch you can kick the bike over in gear . On the Beeza if you pull in the clutch and kick the engine over in gear the bike moves forward , but the engine doesnt turn over , because the ks drives the gearbox ......

[Riejufixing]

[Riejufixing]

[Robby]

I'm not sure what the problem is, or are you just curious about the clutch and kickstart arrangement on the CB250RS?

The kickstart drives the clutch basket, which is directly geared to the crankshaft. The clutch inner part sits on the end of one of the gearbox shafts.

So if you were confused because you can kick it over with the clutch pulled in, that's normal. It's also very useful, because it means you can start it in gear after it dies at a set of lights.

If the clutch is stuck, its just the plates stuck together. Roll it up to a wall with the front wheel touching, start it, put it into gear. The jolt should free off the plates, and the wall will stop it running away. It might need some throttle.

Or just let it run for 10 minutes up on the centre stand, then let it cool down and see if it's behaving.

[Teflon-Mike]

I believe that the CB250RS is the generic small-honda clutch, as used in the CG125, CB125 Twin, Benley, ect etc etc.... See handy How2's in profile for popping the primary drive cover, making a new cornflake packet gasket for it, and overhauling with new plates and springs, which are OTMH only something daft like £20.

Kick-Through clutch? Rare, but not unheard of... My Montesa Cota has a kick-through clutch. Basically the kicker mechanism works on the gearbox input shaft, down-stream of the clutch; so, if you stall 'in-gear', you HAVE to find neutral before you start humping the kicker.... well.... I suppose you dont.... but, it can get rather funny! Usual hilarity is that some-one stalls; hoiks the kicker, and the bike goes forwards... so they haul in the clutch... and face plant the handle-bars.... then start prodding the kickier frantically wondering why it's not doing anything!

Howebler, I'm pretty sure that the Honda XL250/TL250/CB-RS lump is a conventional kick, on the primary drive, turning the crank, so it'll turn the engine over, and only if in gear and clutch out, will that then turn the back wheel.

My first instinct was to suggest you look at the clutch cable though... and this is not entirely off the cards. A corroded solid cable is far more common than stuck clutch plates on a deralict/long-lay-up. And they are wampy little bludgers, that 'stretch', so its possible that the clutch-cable is doing some daft things.... again, for the sake of a tenner... I would just swap it out, its a lot less hassle than trying to force lube down one or soaking in penatrating oil, and sitting there with pliers trying to work it back-and-forth a bit, until its free, only to have the ruddy nipple pop off one end or t'other soon as you 'think' its sorted...

While you are prodding and poking, pay heed to the engine end cable lever; from-memory the cable connects to a stirrup that is pivoted on the end of the clutch release arm, and if sticky/siezed, the cable tugs the clutch 'out' and then the stirrup creeps to where it should be, and the clutch engages itself! Similarly at the handle-bar lever end, it's a direct connection to the cable, but muggers adjusting the cable beyond limits can see the outer pulled right out and not unknown for the adjuster to 'pop' back in its threads under load, or for the lever and or pivot pin to ovalate.

Bottom line is that over-haul is not hard or expensive, and the attention should sort all once and for at least a very long while.

Plates sticking to plates? Its an old chestnut, and as much as anything on a wet-clutch like the XL lump, hints at old oil jelifiying as much as anything. Popping the primary to overhaul, begs new oil, and popping the cover begs a bit more diligence than just hoping all the sludge and crap comes out the tiny drain plug, so again, tends to help part-problems.

FWIW, I have only ever come across truly rusted solid clutches, on a bike 'once'... and it was that dang Cota again, cos it dont have fibre friction plates, they are steel on steel! So they can rust, if the primary goes dry. Have had it on cars with a 'dry' clutch, and a couple of times on Land-Rovers where the bell-housing is want to get filled with water from 'wading', but that's with a cast iron 'flywheel' as one plate and a 'sintered' metallic/asbestos (or H&S approved alternative!) friction plate, where the iron can rust, and the not so dry and the dissimilar metals in the friction plate 'help' it.

I'm told that this can afflict Guzzi's, and possibly BMW's that have a car-style 'dry' flywheel clutch, but I cant say that I have ever 'noticed' it.... gizzi's damn clutch is so ruddy heavy anyway, and finding neutral such a lottery, if it has.... it's probably sorted itself before I have cracked out spanners! Lol!

BUT... CB-RS? Pop the primary, clean it out, change the oil, as for the few penies the plates, springs and cable cost? In for a penny-washer, in-for a pounding, may as well swap it all out, and be damned.
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[St George]

It would seem that my clutch is not stuck in view of the replies. Every bike I have owned, the clutch disconnects the kick start from the engine when it is pulled in. So good news for me at this stage. Can only apologise to the lads that replied. Not my best start on a new forum, but that is why we have forums. Reading other threads and postings shows how well used the Forum is and I will be around for a while. Thanks.

[bikenut]

Sat since 2005, so plenty of time for stuff to stick, but you have been turning the engine over regularly so hopefully the valves have not stuck. Tjhey can and do , and so do clutches and brakes.

With engine off and bike in gear and clutch pulled in, the bike should be able to "roll", but not if the clutch is stuck.

DO NOT start engine and grab a handfull of throttle and smash it into gear, you will need a dentist for the bike and a new plate glass window that the bike will surely head off for out of control!!!!

Arrange so the bike will sit on a stand with the back wheel free and safely able to rotate. The bike must be safe and not able to roll off the centre stand else an out of control bike etc.

In Neutral, start the engine and allow to get to normal working temp, you could do this a couple of times pulling in and out the clutch several times and you may hear it free ( gearbox noise disappear when clutch pulled in ) .

With bike rear end safely in the air, and a working temp engine, stop engine, select a high gear and re start engine. The back wheel will rotate quite fast. Pull in the clutch and blip the throttle several times. The power and overrun jerk ( and hot engine ) will free the clutch off.

This is the quickest safest way of doing this chore.

Remember any corrosion etc. on the clutch metal plates will end up in the engine oil, so ideally strip the clutch and free/part/seperate the clutch manually, and clean etc.. This is the ideal time to flush out any crap on the sump floor etc.etc.etc.
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[St George]

Thanks Bikenut. The engine sounded good last week, fingers crossed.
I can roll the bike with the engine off, in gear with the clutch pulled in. So far so good. In the last hour I fitted a brand new Dunlop on the front and resprayed the fork legs, so will let that dry overnight.
I will use you method of clutch testing with the bike firmly on the main stand. Kind regards. Colin.

[bikenut]

I can roll the bike with the engine off, in gear with the clutch pulled in. So far so good.

this means the clutch is disengaging and is relatively free, but the metod is outlined would not harm. Remember if the clutch was stuck, any corrosion etc on the metal clutch plates will wear off and end up in the engine oil, so ideally strip and clean, and flush out sump floor at the same time.

Will check on cmsnl to see what holds the clutch drum/basket on if you have given enough info, but when the clutch drum/basket is off please post a picture of before and after cleaning the inner surface of the clutch drum/basket fingers, to show centrifugal type crap trap.
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[bikenut]

I dont know the exact details of your bike but this may be it, unless its an air cooled one......

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-rs250r-1997-japan-e-3_big3IMG01174186_23e1.gif

you may be able to clean off the clutch basket finger inner surface without completely removing same......

If flushing the sump floor, use low pressure rather than high pressure as high pressure would tend top "splatter" the crap all over the insides of the engine/gearbox, where as low pressure will tend to just dislodge and flush crap out.
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[bikenut]

where not the early rs air cooled????
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[The Shaggy D.A.]

CB250RS <> RS250R
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[Teflon-Mike]

[bikenut]

https://images.cmsnl.com/img/partslists/honda-cb250rs-1982-c-england-clutch_bigma000142e07_714d.gif
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