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hellkat
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PostPosted: 13:53 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Bhinso Reply with quote

Get help, chap.
More help.

Don't give up.
Do it for yourself.

You are worthy of self care.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:28 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yeah.... 👍
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 14 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If this is related to that thing I read in the other thread I feel for you. My mum suffers from a near crippling social anxiety disorder. It's only recently I've got her to open up on it and really talk and we've made some serious progress over the last few months.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:53 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the support/advice. Yeah social anxiety is something i've had, just seems to have got worse over the last year.
Falling into the alcohol pit was a huge mistake. It's like a 30 minute anesthetic, before you feel even worse. But it's a coping mechanism. Remove the coping mechanism like I did last year, and you're left with the underlying problem.

Trying to get help but looks like it won't be through the NHS: "Oh you've just come out of de-tox, sorry you're anxiety is alcohol related. Don't drink for 2 years and then we might to offer support."

The best idea I've had is to offer my spare room to a friend that needs it. OK i'm not expecting any help for all this, but just having company when doing stuff like cooking might help Thumbs Up
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, this is a similar situation to my mum: she's been to her doctor plenty of times but unless you're 2 steps away from death's door they're not interested. And she doesn't even drink so there's not even that excuse.

Unfortunately you'll probably have to fork out for a private psychologist familiar with CBT... no, not a biker shrink: Cognitive Behavioural Therapy. That might be more effective long-term than medication (prescribed or otherwise.) Not that drugs should always be disregarded. We did have one lovely Xmas where mum was on the "happy pills" but she couldn't hack the side effects - which is the problem with most drugs Sad

You'll need to have a long and critical look at your life and see if you can figure out where things might have gone awry. For my mum it was the usual uncaring parents, the isolation of being the eldest of her siblings and the shame of not being a top tier academic, failing the 11 plus and so on... school was absolute hell for her.

TBH these are all First World Problems but if you spend your formative years with no encouragement and constant admonishment for lack of capability it does not a happy human make.
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:11 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's difficult to know how much is genetic (my mum is also a quiet introvert) and how much is about upbringing. My dad's very authoritarian and has always berated my lack of 'common sense'. I'm not into blaming others though, no one put a glass in my hand and made me drink.

It's difficult to explain how bad the social anxiety is. There's a group called Midland Motorbikers near here that have Sunday social meets. So far I've not built up the courage to go. Firstly I don't (currently) have a bike, second I find it really hard in environments where everyone knows each other and not you. Thirdly I fear I'll fuck up in some way (unlikely) and get blicked from the group or something.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't put yourself down too much. It takes a special kind of person to jump straight into a large group of people and be totally cool. However, I appreciate "being out of your comfort zone" doesn't even begin to approach how you might be feeling.

The only thing that's kept my mum going over the years has been her love of gardening. It can be quite solitary, working away in the garden, but there's no one there to tell you what to do or how you're getting it wrong.

She's a member of quite a few societies - RHS, that sort of thing - and she still struggles with entering a room with more than a few ppl in even though she's known most of the members for years! Her tactic has been to try and turn up early so there's hardly anyone there and "build up to it."

She related to me how she got a little lost due to a road closure one evening and arrived half way through a talk about some esoteric gardening subject and the feeling that everyone would swivel round and glare at her for slinking in the back of the room so late. Of course, no one noticed her at all, not even the speaker, but she still felt that the weight of guilt and shame could squish her to a pulp at any moment.

"No one really cares, who are you are you trying to impress?!" But this is the thing: it's not really the people around you that you're trying to impress but the ghosts of your past. Freud would call it the "super-ego." It's the strict set of near impossible cultural ideals that are programmed into all of us. Jiminy Cricket with a baseball bat, if you will. It's the ego, the "you" failing to push back that throws things out of balance.

So it might be of help to have a hobby - motorbikes being appropriate given our surroundings - that you can tackle without the need to impress anyone, something you can have just for yourself. It also helps, where at all possible, to have some skill or authority on a subject - no matter how obscure - that you can have some confidence in. (I appreciate that could be something to work up to though.)

For example, I am absolutely confident that I know far more than is natural about the C# programming language. And that certain knowledge... is of absolutely no use whatsoever at dinner parties! But it is mine and no one can take that away.

Like a pearl you only need just a tiny grain of self-confidence to build on and the rest is just time and patience.
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Last edited by Easy-X on 22:01 - 15 Apr 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Sload
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

hmmm ok, are you active? How is your health?
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:
Thanks for the support/advice. Yeah social anxiety is something i've had, just seems to have got worse over the last year.
Falling into the alcohol pit was a huge mistake. It's like a 30 minute anesthetic, before you feel even worse. But it's a coping mechanism. Remove the coping mechanism like I did last year, and you're left with the underlying problem.

Trying to get help but looks like it won't be through the NHS: "Oh you've just come out of de-tox, sorry you're anxiety is alcohol related. Don't drink for 2 years and then we might to offer support."

The best idea I've had is to offer my spare room to a friend that needs it. OK i'm not expecting any help for all this, but just having company when doing stuff like cooking might help Thumbs Up


You are not a dumb cunt.

There is loads of shit on t' Internets on how to 'combat' the bastirt drink.

Why are you reading this rubbish? Smile

I'm no psychologist but I believe distraction is a way to beat any habit.
Find something to replace the bevy (that doesn't involve chemicals).

Find a person trained in helping. It's not too expensive. 50/week or so.

https://www.psychologytoday.com/gb/counselling/scotland?gclid=Cj0KCQjw19DlBRCSARIsAOnfReiiVzJr6t25Or1-Pc3ICk1CwgIWmWsrlJN36dYKj5oXVSjmroBRQwoaAr_ZEALw_wcB

If you do not find some interesting info there I will set you to enemy. Mad
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 22:27 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the contrary, I'd advise you to have a drink if you suffer from serious anxiety issues.

I had some difficult times a few years ago with anxiety for the first time in my life, and I knew it was attributed to work stress and uncertainty. Prior to that point I always thought anyone with a mental illness was just a bloody nutter.

I had days where I was convinced my life was ending, my chest was so tight and my heart was all over the place making me feel dizzy, sick and faint. Even socially going out was difficult as I thought what happens if I collapse or die in a busy place or cause hassle for other people. As it happens I did collapse unconscious a few times once at a busy music gig and also at work. But the point is that when I did go out and meet friends etc I found that having a few beers made things bearable more of the time and I sometimes felt like there was nothing wrong with me too.

Getting over anxiety can only be done with help and support and often professional help as well as finding out the root cause and how to change the situation your in to resolve it. Personally I don't really believe in genetics causing anxiety and I don't believe you can be born with it unlike some mental illnesses.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 22:33 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

stevo as b4 wrote:
On the contrary, I'd advise you to have a drink if you suffer from serious anxiety issues.

I had some difficult times a few years ago with anxiety for the first time in my life, and I knew it was attributed to work stress and uncertainty. Prior to that point I always thought anyone with a mental illness was just a bloody nutter.

I had days where I was convinced my life was ending, my chest was so tight and my heart was all over the place making me feel dizzy, sick and faint. Even socially going out was difficult as I thought what happens if I collapse or die in a busy place or cause hassle for other people. As it happens I did collapse unconscious a few times once at a busy music gig and also at work. But the point is that when I did go out and meet friends etc I found that having a few beers made things bearable more of the time and I sometimes felt like there was nothing wrong with me too.

Getting over anxiety can only be done with help and support and often professional help as well as finding out the root cause and how to change the situation your in to resolve it. Personally I don't really believe in genetics causing anxiety and I don't believe you can be born with it unlike some mental illnesses.


Step away from the thread Sir. Very Happy

We are all unavoidably results of genetic intervention.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 22:39 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sload has a very good point.

He's not thinking about you running marathons and is instead thinking about you managing what carries you along.
It might sound like it's completely separate but they're very connected.

(You've heard this too many times) You're not alone and not the only one. Everyone carries forms of what you have but on many different levels.

Me? Yeah I've been to dark places. So dark they currently have me on a high risk list. I'm serious. I was never going to admit this here but I think it'll help you. I'm known to all services as high risk and each and every one will contact me at random - 2 did today for example. Each and every one has made all of their sites a place of safety for me should I need it.
I go to dark places still. I was arrested 3 times this year - the police arrested me to save my life. Yes - that bad. (5 couldn't put me to the floor - takes 6 plus handcuffs in anyone's interested..)
I'm on a 'waiting list' and it's their last attempt. I've been through the system for 34 years. I'm one of those you read about sometimes in the newspapers and think 'fuck he's had it fucking bad'. My story isn't out yet but it will be one day.
I cope. Just. I keep my body as best I can get it. I walk, anywhere, meet a small select group of friends and sometimes chat. It breaks my time up and creates what I call distractions. Let me explain..
My distractions total 50 at any one time. Half are dry day and half are wet day - wet day things are for indoors.
Distractions can be anything. I'm very good with metal and using my hands. I mostly make metal flowers. Not all in one go - a bit till I'm bored after 10 minutes and so I'll have a cup of tea. Then I might go draw something or oil hinges - just anything to stop my mind and my dark past catching up with me. My darkness is here beside me even as I type.
I cannot do my distractions if my body cannot carry me. My legs need to walk to meet with a friend. My hands need strength to bend metal. My body needs a balance of nutrients to be able to sleep comfortably. Obviously I struggle with everyday life because my thoughts sometimes take over and I neglect myself.

You need to have some strength physically to support your mind mentally. It can be done and with the right attitude. Sload was hinting at this.
Yes I'm strong physically but mentally I still slip - it's why they need to try to fix me. For me it probably won't work (too ingrained they say) but I'm going to try it anyway. I will never give up (though I do slip too).
Distractions might just work for you if you can manage to break some routine up.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 15 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you saw someone you vaguely knew walking down the road wearing a T-Shirt proudly announcing "Battling Cancer... One Day At A Time" you might stop and chat with them, ask them about their progress.

Would you have the same feeling if instead it said "Battling Bipolar Disorder... Hanging On By My Fingertips" ?

It would be the crowning achievement of Western Civilisation if we could manage to give mental illness the same level of care and compassion as physical illness.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

bhinso wrote:

It's difficult to explain how bad the social anxiety is. There's a group called Midland Motorbikers near here that have Sunday social meets. So far I've not built up the courage to go. Firstly I don't (currently) have a bike, second I find it really hard in environments where everyone knows each other and not you. Thirdly I fear I'll fuck up in some way (unlikely) and get blicked from the group or something.

Nahhhhh, go on.

I can totally relate to that scenario.

When I first came back from NZ in 1998, after having run off from my ex husband (see other thread), I wanted to hang out with guys that had bikes, as I had got bikes into the blood whilst away. So my husband was so not up for it, although we did once get an invite from one of his boozy pub friends, to a party at a pub but to which not many people turned up (for a very good reason) and most people who did acted very shiftily - and apparently the landlord sat upstairs with a shotgun on his knee the whole evening Laughing (not on my account, I hasten to add).

So once things started to go pear shaped with the marriage again, I had read in BSH that a particular bike club was having meetings at a local pub, and I just started going there on Thursdays after work for a couple of drinks, and then go home again. Arriving dressed as a legal secretary, and not having a bike at the time, nobody seemed to pay me much attention, especially as I sat quietly across the other side of the bar, too shy to talk to any of them, and secretly ogling one or two of them wishfully ( Laughing )

Eventually a couple of the girlfriends came over and asked me over to their side of the bar for a drink. I can't remember if I had managed to get a bike by then, but I figured they had seen me stopping to look at the bikes on my way in, so they must have known I was interested.

Several of them admitted to me years later that they thought I was a "spy" sent from another club to check them all out, hahahahaha! Me? The Mata Hari of the bike world, they must be having a bubble.

I actually managed to talk a mate into meeting me there once, he had a Vincent, which impressed the fuck out of all of them. But eventually I got a bike on the road, and wobbled along on a few rides out and rallies with them, and became "one of the supporters".

So they accepted me, and became like the annoying little brothers that I had never had. I might have shagged a couple of them ... Shifty although I quite quickly made a personal rule of "one man, one club", as I didn't want to get a reputation. Shocked

I probably fucked up in several ways over the years, they moved out of being a mixed-sex club into a men-only club, long before I even considered memberships of those type ... so I didn't really bother with formally joining them.

But even though most of them no longer ride, and my bikes are only just in the process of getting back on the road ... I'm still fairly good buddies with most of them even now. Any of them could turn up unannounced, they're like family, my daughter even calls one of them "Uncle" (no, not one of the ones I have shagged, LOL, although he's only managed to escape by the skin of his teeth).

Laughing
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 14:56 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, some real good advice thanks all. And respect Sister Sledge for talking openly about your own demons. How to respond to everything?

Nature vs. Nurture? This is a tricky one. I REALLY wan't to think the latter, as the former just says 'it's in your genes. Your fucked'. However, all I can give is an example: My aunt can't have children. She adopted a 1 year old girl from a reasonable background, and a 6 month old boy removed from his drug addict parents.
Go forward 25 years, same upbringing. Girl now has a masters degree in languages. Boy fell into drugs at about 18, arrested for GBH on his MOTHER, girlfriend and is now banged up. Same upbringing.

Getting active/distractions. Good advice. Used to push bike to work, but fell back into using the car. Time I started getting the (non motorised) bike out again. Don't currently have a motorbike, but what better distraction than buying a battered one and fixing it up? As a pen pusher I have ZERO practical skills, but my lodger (as of Friday) is mechanically minded so I'd love some sort of project.

Also I've managed to secure myself some psychology sessions starting May 8th. It's focused towards 'transactional analysis' but I'll give it a go. Just need to keep as free of alcohol as possible until then.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope we can save you before you Rage Flounce the forum in a drunken stupor...

Smile

I quit fags after seeing my father on drips and sedated in Glasgow Royal Infirmary Heart ward.
The man used to lift double washbasings up three flights of stairs on his back.
The fags slowly crippled him.

I walked out of the hospital and saw all the Doctor's Porchas, Mercedes and BMWs parked outside and made the connection between fags-profit-misery.

It was hatred of the tobacco profiteering that anoyed me enough to help me quit.
I liked smoking too. Sad
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:47 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

For me it was a "voluntary tax calculator" I found on either the Guardian or BBC website: you put in how much you spent on beer, tabs and lotto tickets. Turns out I was donating over four grand a year to the government... fuck that! So I gave up.
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Sload
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could go into this but I think it might be a little wasted at the minute.

First is stay out of the pol thread and stop getting dragged into politics. This by nature is confrontational and will feedback a negative for you which in turn can fuel other negative habits.

Second is to learn the triggers that feed your urge to drink (including the point above) and get better at recognising and avoiding them.

And thirdly, I'm assuming you are not too disciplined with physical exercise (I may be wrong), so stop just stalking the fitness thread and contribute. Set yourself a goal and work after it. Make sure you share to hold yourself to account and don't beat yourself when you fail., Just reset and keep punching at it.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:49 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
I walked out of the hospital and saw all the Doctor's Porchas, Mercedes and BMWs parked outside and made the connection between fags-profit-misery.

You're not seriously suggesting doctors are profiteering from the tobacco industry?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used to think I was an introvert in the old-fashioned sense; a shy, reticent person, but that wasn't my whole story. I knew that even some entertainers were introverts, (how could that be?) and I knew that in certain situations I would take the lead, I could be funny, I shone.

I took an on-line, "Do you have Asperger's?" questionnaire hoping to explain my own social anxiety (which I'd learned to manage to an extent) and my failure to connect like others can (which I hadn't learned to manage) but I failed the test. I feel the pain of others; Asperger's isn't my problem. I wanted answers and was disappointed!

Then I saw a Facebook post (yeah..., bear with me) which explained that extroverts are stimulated to excel in a crowd whereas introversion is the involuntary suppression of one's own personality and intellect when in the company of others. This was a revelation insofar as it explains why, when asked a difficult question at work for example, I will say, "Give me 5 minutes and I'll come back to you with the answer," whereas before I might just flounder while they waited. Also after a pleasant night out I'll feel self-loathing because I wasn't really me. Red wine is my compensatory poison, and I worry I drink too much, but it gets me through the week.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 23:03 - 16 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be kind to yourselves. You're human and the body and brain changes, but the mind constantly compares what is to what has been to what it wants next.

Thoughts and emotions are just that. They often seem all consuming and powerful, but they are like speed limits; advisory and to be taken into consideration given the conditions Smile

If you can create some space between you and your thoughts / emotions, it's much easier to deal with them in a calm and methodical manor that doesn't involve risky / life changing / ending behaviour and actions.
I'm a stuck record, but mindfulness and meditation are simple, effective and compared to many prescription drugs, quicker results.

I'm not saying they are a cure. I still spend some of winter looking at places to hang from. My anxiety is so bad I still avoid people.
.......yeah, I guess I'm not really a good salesman for this Smile

But the point is, I see it, intervene and ride it out in a shorter time (often minutes). Compared to spiralling over weeks and months.
And the more often you get up from the canvas, the faster you get up, the less often you find you get knocked out. And over time, you're dodging and ducking those punches like Ali and not getting hit in the face (Rumble in the Jungle aside).
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 03:32 - 17 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

You're not seriously suggesting doctors are profiteering from the tobacco industry?


https://www.healthcare-administration-degree.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/04/Lead.jpg
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:24 - 17 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've just done some positive forward thinking. A junker bike to distract you - it'll cost more than a working one in the end but the small rebuild stages will all add up to a completed task and the satisfaction it'll bring.
That's what my CCM was - it's (mostly) done now. Today I'll be out on it and making a racket up and down the Tyne Tunnels - because I can!

Folk have given you a stack of ideas and perhaps some direction. That last bit is where you come into it because only you know what can distract you and take your mind off things.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 17 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

"There but for the grace of god go I"

I'm certain, with nothing to occupy me, you'd find me scrawling poetry, pseudo code and circuit diagrams on the cell walls with my own shit, Marquis de Sade style!
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 17 Apr 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Distractions. Yes, I think that is the key. Or in other words, having a life and living it to the full.

There are often some seemingly insurmountable problems with this though. Some distractions don't actually occupy enough time. Others are out of reach for many. Other factors make them impractical. It's not as simple as "he/she has an addictive personality". I can avoid my own addiction (cigarettes) for a while, not think about it for a bit when I am distracted by other things. But addictions are very easy to attend to. Distractions may take more effort, and that effort has to be sustained.
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