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ow to wire new LED lights without relay (two basic question)

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vybrano
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PostPosted: 03:34 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: ow to wire new LED lights without relay (two basic question) Reply with quote
# a lot of diagrams takes (+) from the battery. I have 3 pin key ignition, could I take (+) behind the ignition from the black wire? so lights are on only when key is in ignition?



# I have multiple lights, can I connect them parallel to each other? = I will split black live wire into multiple individual lines, continue with switch and light in each line, than to the ground? I read, that you should connect LED in to series, does it apply here?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 08:37 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
LED bulb replacements? They'd all be set up to handle 12V either via build in regulators or resistors. These wire in parallel.

You're trying to wire into what one might call the "accessory" circuit. Be careful as this isn't meant to carry a large amount of current. If it were just one set of lights you might get away with it, if they were low power, but it sounds more like you need a lighting relay...

Power from ignition > Lighting Relay coil side
Power from battery > Fuse > Lighting Relay switch side > Lighting system
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 09:19 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'd use a relay. There is often slight earth leakage (milliwatts) on motorcycle circuits, especially in the damp. LEDs will light with even tiny currents.

I converted the dash on my VFR to LED and all the warning lights glow dimly when it's raining.

In any case, rather than take a switched live from the ignition, take it from the +ve feed to the brake light switch. Then if it fucks up, you only lose one brake light switch.
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vybrano
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PostPosted: 09:42 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's second hand, missing half of the electronics. There isn't anything like accessory circuit. I'm wiring everything myself.


FRONT 4x: 12V LED about 20 Watt each.
BACK 1x: 12V LED 10 Watt

I'M USING SOMETHING LIKE THIS: https://www.amazon.com/Nilight-Driving-Lights-driving-Warranty/dp/B00IY3YLCI/


You are telling me to use hot wire from ignition to click relay. Relay will on the other side bring 12V from battery. I will split it, connect parallel each light. Are you sure I can connect them parallel after relay (so each light can have its own switch)?
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R1stu
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Time to plug my video Razz

I have just designed and built an AUX fuse box for my ST1100 for my accessories. This box has 6 slots, I have put my heated grips, usb's, sat nav and other bits on there. you can connect running lights to it too.

There is a second or 2 delays after you power to the bike, before it turns on, but this may only be on my bike as I have an accessory fuse.

https://youtu.be/SyiaEqcLkmA
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vybrano
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PostPosted: 15:22 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
mpd72 wrote:
Floodlights? 4 on the front? Even 24 hour endurance racers don't need that.

Are they even legal where you plan on riding this extremely dangerous, motorbike powered, blinding light array? You appear to be wiring them to be on permanently with ignition. How do you plan on switching them off as they don't dip, for incoming traffic?


THAT is my question! If I connect all lights into series, I will only be able to turn OFF all lights at once (switch in series with all lights).

How to do it, so I can turn off only some lights? If I can't do them parallel, I don't know how to do it... .

//It won't ride on public road, legal/illegal is not an issue here.
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Teflon-Mike
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PostPosted: 15:25 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
vybrano wrote:
It's second hand,

A Second Hand WHAT?
vybrano wrote:
missing half of the electronics. There isn't anything like accessory circuit.

Electronics? Or Electrical?
vybrano wrote:
I'm wiring everything myself.

Hmm... yeah, you have to ask how to wire a light bulb... dont know the difference between electronic and electrical... a-n-d... well... good luck with that!!!!
vybrano wrote:
FRONT 4x: 12V LED about 20 Watt each.
BACK 1x: 12V LED 10 Watt

Errr.. four 20W LED spot-lamps.... what, as accesory spot-lamps or in substitute for an actual proper headlamp

BTT What fugging BIKE is it?
4x20W is 80W... whether as an accessory or as a replacement for the headlamp! That's normally, due to regs not more than 55w! And often barely half even that, on lighght-weights, that dont have genny's big enough to light even that much!

I suspect that any bike that comes with no lights/electrics is either a) nicked and field biked b) a chinese generic 125, probably also a)

In either case, even on a BIG bike, you are likely to start melting OEM handle-bar switches at oooh.... anything more than about 100W... and that will include the draw of the tail lamp, likely to be around 20 or 30W of conventional tungsten bulb....

120W of alternative lighting? SORT of implies you will HAVE to relay them to avoid frying switches and wires some-where along the line... only saving grace bere being that you probably would never encounter that, especially on a Chinky origin 125, 'cos the generator doesn't make enough Watts to actually supply that amount of electric-crap... battery would.... briefly... but....

vybrano wrote:
FRONT 4x: 12V LED about 20 Watt each.
BACK 1x: 12V LED 10 Watt


Err.. yeah... have you read the The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986? And more pertinently, THE ROAD VEHICLES LIGHTING (AMENDMENT) REGULATIONS 2017 ?

Some interesting little laws in there, like what colour lamps may be, as well as which direction they should be pointing, but also what marking should be on them IF you want them to go through an MOT test, etc etc etc... and of course, not get tugged by coppa....

I suggest you read some of it.... could prove useful.....

vybrano wrote:
You are telling me to use hot wire from ignition to click relay.

Dafuq? a 'hot-wire'?
A 'little' knowledge is a dangerous thing, me-thinks, and in this case, very little is very very dangerous!

vybrano wrote:
Relay will on the other side bring 12V from battery. I will split it, connect parallel each light. Are you sure I can connect them parallel after relay (so each light can have its own switch)?


A typical automotive relay is rated and often fused at 30Amps... Watts is Volts times Amps... so, at nominal 12v a 30A relay should be able to handle about 350Watts... you are talking is burning maybe an extra 100w of lights, that's about 5A, more than typical switch will take, or 125's or even a big-bikes fenny might bang out, but, well below the current handling of a single relay..... so... you could switch that sort of load with just one.... and a relay is an electrically operated switch, so that one electrically operated switch is ALL that aught be needed... how you switch that electrically operated switch, and how many switches you use to switch it, pretty much up to you really....

If you want to take a 'feed' from the battery to your LED flood-lamps; and switch one pair with the head-lamp and the other pair with the dipped circuit.... then you would likely want two or three relays.

1/ One in the main feed from the battery/supply. Itself switched by the ignition switched 'accessory' circuit... so lights could only get power when the ignition 'on'.

2/ One, from that, to the actual LED lamp, switched by the headlamp circuit.

3/ IF splitting the lamps, one for 'Hi' and one for 'Dip' beam, then you would likely want TWO extra relays, one switched by the Hi beam circuit, one by the Dip beam circuit.

BUT.... the issue of your fundamental, 'wouldn't trust this guy to change the fuse in the kettle', understanding of electrics SORT of remains, here....

Would still be helpful to know what bike; the UK C&U regs and lighting amends still apply, and the lack of 'electronics' on the bike to start with, and your aspiration to scratch build a wiring loom, 'sort' of remains......

I have done this, more than once or twice... BUT.... from your described start, it DOES seem a lot like fools leaping where angels fear to put their dainty feet!

Start at the beginning..

1/WHAT BIKE?
Then, before loking for more than standard, make sure you have all you should AS standard..
2/ Get OEM wiring diagram and schematics and specs....
How much power does the generator actually bang out? And note; specs will tell you the MAX power it bangs out, not what it does at idle engine revs. Depending on hoow the bike is ridden, and how much charge is put into the battery compared to taken out, for the time it actually spends even close to max genny revs, you 'may' be able yo bank on perhaps half the max genny rating... that sets your threshold for how much current you can draw with any 'necessery' equipment; like head-lamp and tail lamp, horn, and depending on age indies, as well as the starter motor and anything else by way of 'accesories' you want to add
3/ Read the Regulations!!!
Whatever the plan here; imperative is you re-make what the factory did as standard, and get a set of lights that neither MOT man or Plod can moan about.... it is NOT much use building a fantastic lighting system around a custom electrical system, that gives absolutely wonderful amounts of light, and saves you inordinate pennies to buy... IF it don't pass muster at MOT of you sped your whole time getting tugged for dazzling coppas!
In here is the query whether these mini soccer flood lights are supposed to be 'accessory; lamps, like a spot-light, which must extinguish with the 'main beam' or a 'fog--light' which must be independently switched and CANNOT be 'legally' used unless visibility beneath threshold, IE foggy.... and in ANY case must be either BSI or E-Marked as approved for road use.....
This could still beg that an 'ordinary' headlamp be included in the scheme....
Likewise see tail lamp regs.. LED's are great... bright, IF rather directional... but also tend to be 'RED'... which can either beg another lamp to light up the number-plate... or using a different LED lamp, or bulb to chuck WHITE light at the number-plate... and hence get an MOT and keep plod from an easy pull....
4/ WHAT BIKE - OEM Wiring Diagram!
If you are scratch building a loom.... well, factory already done dat; and they tend to be pretty good at it.... AS REGS ABOVE... headlamp and tail lamp is NOT all you need....
OEM wiring will generally include the regulation circuit through the regulator rectifier to either charge the battery and or supply equipment, as well as power the ignition.
On 125's, the ignition circuit is often a stand-alone bit of circuitry, that doesn't take power from the battery... but IS switched... so, what 'ignition-switch' do you have or hope to use? And then, what regulator/rectifier and battery? And from there, onto the horn and indies and 'stuff'. And what switches will you use for any of it?

OEM handl-bar switches will tend to prove a lot cheaper in the long-run, especially second hand, even if they aren't from this exact model of bike, as well as prove a dang site less 'messy' than trying to cobble together something with generic halfrauds or e-bay blister-pak switches and crimpy connectors and cable ties...

A-N-D what are you hoping to achieve?
- Cost saving?
- Reliability improvement?
- Better visibility in the dark?
- Better 'conspicuity' in traffic?
- A bit of everything?

Start AT THE TOP, and before asking 'Why NOT'.. take a littrle time to ask "Why SO!" because it aint standard just to pigg folk off! There's usually damn good reason for it being made like that!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:00 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
So let's assume you're starting with a bike with no lighting circuits but turns over and runs...

1) Find something on the ignition that supplies power when you turn the key. We will call this wire "accessory." If you don't have such a feed get a new ignition switch that does.

2) Tail light: if you have some nice fat wires coming from the ignition just wire the tail light LED straight into the accessory wire. If they're skimpy just have it power a relay and the relay is switching on and off a direct feed from the battery.

3) Get a dual handlebar switch for Bank 1 and Bank 2 of the lights. Any cheap crap will do as they don't need to carry much power.

4) Wire the switches to two relays and the relays will switch power directly from the battery.

5) Connect two lamps in parallel per relay.

I'll see if I still have my circuit diagram software and knock something up.
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Teflon-Mike
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Joined: 01 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 17:21 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
HardlyDavidson wrote:
So let's assume you're starting with a bike with no lighting circuits but turns over and runs...

Last posts crossed...
vybrano wrote:
It won't ride on public road, legal/illegal is not an issue here.

Rather begs even more "What the heck are you playing at, and would I trust you to chang ethe fuse on the kettle.... b-u-t...

IF no need to be 'road legal'.... then why does he want a tail-lamp? Or ANY lamps at all for that matter?

If 'off-road'... hmmm... more nicked field-bike notions are brung to mind.... in which case why spend anything at all on it.... esp if plod at best will merely confiscate and crush, then maybe look for actual owner.... maybe....

We did put the lighting kits on the compers for 'night-trials'... LED flood lights MIGHT be a little OTT on that.... we had a single 6v mag-direct glow-worm-in-a-jam-jar.... trained by BL's best shop stewards.....

So... Oh-Kay.... bit of night-time larkin about..... maybe some sort of forward facing light may be useful.... but if so... why need to make it work with the ignition... lket alone double stack to work with 'dip' and 'Hi' beam? A purely off-road comper doesn't need to have any of this, .... just run supply straight off the battery, and point lamps in roughly the right direction..... like a torch you don't have to hold.....

SOMETHING here don't add up... and there's more NOT being said than there is... L-I-K-E what the bike be!

Could be anything from a melody moped or C90 step-through with 6v and mag-direct lights, up, really....
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Here's something ultra simple:

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/light_diagram.png
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vybrano
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PostPosted: 23:33 - 24 May 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
HardlyDavidson wrote:
Here's something ultra simple:

https://cdn.bcf.44bytes.net/files/light_diagram.png


Thank you very much! That is very good and very specific answer!

I just ordered more relays, as I have only 1 spare, and once it arrives I will connect it as you suggested. And post here result.

Thank you!!!
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