mental block with cornering?

[Tierbirdy]

At the risk of being branded a giant fanny, I hate corners. And I don't know why. There seems to be some kind of mental block with them.

I know my bike is more than capable of taking them much faster than I do them. I know I'm capable of doing them. But I really just don't like it, I don't feel stable or in control and I don't know what I'm doing wrong.

The friends I normally ride with are complete hooligans and they're not happy unless they're taking 90 degree bends at instaban+ speeds and sparks flying from their pegs, whereas I'm much happier pootling along in a nice comfy upright position. I don't enjoy excessively leaning over, I feel no desire to get my knee down on every corner/roundabout and its getting to the stage where I hate riding with them and would simply rather stay home than try to kill myself keeping up with them in the "twisties" they love so much as it just doesn't feel safe or controlled and I just end up being pissed off/miserable being left behind and playing catch up the whole time. Long open sweeping bends I'm absolutely fine with, its the short, sharp, multiple corners found on your typical country road that I hate... and everyone else seems to love so much. I slow down on approach to a safe speed, move into a suitable position and go through at a sensible speed. Everyone else YOLOs through it at 90 because they'll probably make it out fine and "its fun". Then I have to get up to silly speed on the straights to try and catch up.

I had my first (and hopefully only) crash over a year ago now, which was mid-corner as a car driver changed lane on a sharp roundabout and twatted into me writing off the bike and breaking my arm. Since then due to a combination of work not allowing me the time and the weather being shit I've not really ridden that much, and wonder if there's perhaps some kind of subconscious lost confidence issues linked between this and cornering sharply now but I just don't know.

What am I doing wrong and how do I get over this mental block/stop being a fanny? I know the theory of how to corner properly, I know my bike is capable of it, I know I can do it, I just hate doing it but I don't want to hate it.

[Easy-X]

Sounds like you've had two knocks: your arm and your confidence

You said the bike was written off. Did you get a similar model or something different? Maybe you just have the wrong bike for "getting low."
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[Shaft]

Hope you find the definitive answer, I've been trying for 35 years.

Stickiest tyres I can find helps, as does riding more, but I'm resigned to not being a hooligan, or being able to keep up when the going gets seriously fast.

On the other hand, I'm alive (lots of my old biker friends aren't) and I haven't fallen off for about the same number of years, but I can still put the hammer down enough to satisfy me, so I console myself with those facts

Edit: Also, don't go on ride outs with your hooligan "friends", you obviously aren't comfortable with it, so don't put yourself under that pressure, go out by yourself and ride at your own pace.
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[Bhud]

Could you give an example of a specific winding section of road (a Google Maps link would be cool) and tell us how fast your friends take this road vs what speed you yourself find comfortable?

[WD Forte]

The only problem I see is you're comparing yourself to others which is pointless

There are only two rules to biking in my book
1 Survive
2 Try and enjoy it

If you cant do 1 you'll never do 2
If you cant do 2 why are you doing it?

Never been a sporty bike fan, more of a touring, "ooh look! cows!" or "ooh look! cafe! me hungy" type rider
and never enjoyed group rides much if at all.
I got off a ferry in Dublin to go to a rally in Sligo and a lot of the others were synchronising satnavs and establishing formations and all that bollox.
Fuck that, I cleared off, got lost for a bit, had shufty at the map then had a most enjoyable ride to Sligo on me tod going as fast or slow as I felt like and stopping where and whenever I wanted.

I ticked off 1 and 2 there y'see?
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bikers smell of wee

[Sister Sledge]

Sounds like you're with the wrong group for starters. I don't mean that in a bad way - they sound like a recipe for disaster. You know yourself it just takes one stone on the road, hidden just around the corner and they're going at such a rate they'll have very little chance of changing that line through the corner..

Has your suspension been set up professionally for you? There are places which can do it for you and your weight etc.
Not saying it's you but if the bike isn't set up properly in the first place it can be terrifying.

You're not alone though. Sure I love corners but for me I love flat out acceleration. Just my preferred way to ride that.
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CCM 404 DS

[Old Git Racing]

Do you want to do what your mates are doing? If no find some like minded people to ride with without the keeping up pressure spoiling your ride and wondering if your going to come round a corner to find carnage (likely at some point).
If you want to improve your cornering go on a trackday in the novice group and ask an instructor to help. No pressure, all going the same way round, no cars.
I feel for you mate. I was a hooligan (still can be) but have slowed right down now and find it more enjoyable.
Bike type might help, get a cruiser or a classic, you feel like you're fast without actually going fast.
Hope you get it sorted and return to enjoying it.

OGR
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2022 Tiger Sport 660 2019 Street Twin 2003 K3 gixxer 1000 1998 Srad 600 track hack

[linuxyeti]

Just ride solo, arrange to meet your mates somewhere for a cuppa or whatever, then, let them go their merry way, whilst you enjoy a pootle. I'm another who's not keen on group rides, I do a couple, the xmas toy run, and bike4life, but that's it.
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[1198]

You’re riding with the wrong group of people.
Either change your friends or (my personal favourite these days) ride alone.

[1198]

[Hetzer]

Your mates are riding in a way that dictates survival = luck. Nobody knows what's around a blind sharp corner, due to the road not being a predictable race track. So you're not scraping your pegs = you'll stay in one piece a lot longer than them.
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"There's the horizon! Ride hard, ride fast and cut down all who stand in your way!"

[ThunderGuts]

I'd suggest two things;

- don't ride with your "friends", unless they let you lead (but even then, chances are you'll feel pressurised to go faster than you're comfortable with)

- get some tuition specifically on cornering; not with an aim to start scraping your pegs, but so you can relax and extend your "comfort zone". I'm sure any decent instructor would be happy to do some custom tuition with the earpiece in, advise you on lines, posture etc.

Personally I found the bikesafe course quite good too; it's cheap and relatively basic, but helps arm you with some extra info/knowledge and has definitely changed my attitude to corners
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TG.

[-]

I used to be very poor at cornering, so when I decided to go club racing, I picked a 250cc proddy class as even though I was 16 stone, it was all about learning to corner and not straight line speed, which was how I rode on the road on an early R1.

The biggie for me and when it clicked as all about the preparation before you hit the corner, so everthing was in place and there was nothing to think about in a last minute panic. I even shifted my weight and started to position myself whilst still upright as I was downing the gears and braking. Somehow this being prepared thing really helped me and even though I never hit the podium other than a few second and thirds in class, considering my weight, I could certainly hold my own on a 50bhp bike and that was all down to carrying corner speed.

There's also something quite confidence boosting about a lightweight tiny 250 like a TZR. You don't mind pushing it as when the bike weighed around the same as me, after 5 seasons I could often save a front or rear end slide. Nowhere near MotoGP style, but it certainly was possible to lift the bike from a front end slide with your knee, regain traction, but drift wide and still stay on.

If you really want to cure this cornering confidence thing for good, they do a renta bike in the Yamaha Past Masters. ypmrc.co.uk
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[MarJay]

Confidence on a bike is an elusive thing really. I spent years with a lack of confidence, and I think some of it stems from when I owned my SV650 (my second big bike) and it had slightly odd handling. Not bad per se, it just didn't want to turn.

Anyway I have had a bit of a renaissance of confidence of late and that's down to a number of things:

Bikes with good suspension setup and tyres that I like that allow me to push a bit harder

Having done a bit of pitbike racing that forced me to ride faster and harder

California Superbike school/Twist of the Wrist/ Relaxation etc etc.

I was going to go on about how getting the bike set up for your weight is important, about how I particularly like Pirelli Rosso Corsa tyres etc etc but having read your post I think I see the problem. You have friends who just like to be dangerous on bikes. It doesn't sound like you're wobbling around being dangerous getting in peoples way, it sounds like they are hooning like nutters, riding around blind bends and using no cues, no evidence and no observation to assure themselves that the road is clear on the other side of the corner.

There is a difference between hooning around like a nutbar with no fear and being lucky that nothing has happened to you and being smooth and safe and able to make progress. I'd much rather be the latter than the former.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[redeem ouzzer]

I thinK OGR is right on the money.

Is riding fast a big part of what you are looking for in the riding experience? If so then track time (with some instruction) is the way to go.

If you really don't give a shit about riding quickly and are only doing it because of the shitty group riding culture you are a part of then you need to stop doing that and also perhaps look at changing your bike to something more in tune with how you want to ride.
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Be a REAL MAN!

[garth]

Worth noting that whatever level you get to, you'll find your own limit. You normally find this out by following someone faster than you and crashing on corner entry trying to keep up.

It's one of those 'get faster, slowly' things but ultimately I've found out that I just don't have the skill to slide the front into a corner.
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You ain't a has been if you never was

[chickenstrip]

What bike are you riding?
Not all bikes are suited to going fast in the twisty bits. Even bikes that should be right for it aren't necessarily going to be set up to the optimum. There's no sense in pushing it too hard if this is the case. The correct set-up makes the world of difference. Suspension, tyres, brakes; we all need to pay attention to these, but for fast riding they're absolutely crucial.

If you want to ride with others, the right others is important. I've ridden with people who are much faster than me, and backed off if I wasn't comfortable at their pace. Then I didn't ride with them again. I've had periods where I was with the right people, and had some of the best rides of my life, where we were fast but within our limits, and where we had confidence in each other. Great memories of those rides.

So much one could suggest, but in the end: right bike for you, set up properly; right people to ride with, if you want to ride with others; right times and places to explore your riding technique, at the pace you feel comfortable with.

You can push and push, and eventually you'll crash. You either accept that will happen, or accept that you aren't going to be going track-fast on the road, and enjoy riding at a more sensible pace.
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[Bhud]

Everyone's different - they're having fun their own way. If you're not on the same wavelength, it may be best to change your habits by meeting them at a cafe or something instead of riding with them. From what you're saying, it sounds like you know how to corner and your bike is up to it but you're just not into that all the time. So you arrive and meet them in a relaxed, easy mindset but they're hyped up on excitement and adrenaline right from the start, i.e. their wavelength is completely different. Also, you said they're hammering it on roundabouts, so I gather it's go go go all the time.

On the few occasions I've ridden with others, it's never been the corners that worried me (corners are what I like) but their overtaking decisions. What I find interesting is that you're saying they're scraping pegs at instaban speeds on 90-degree turns. On residential 30mph roads (2-way streets in town with 90-degree turns), the fastest I could take them is about 40mph on any bike. The camber, manhole covers, etc. The one issue I encounter on country roads is the left-hander with hedgerows/trees to either side of the road. There could be a cyclist or a slow car or gravel or just about anything around the bend. Usually there isn't, but sometimes there is. So I back off to a speed much lower than I could go, just in case there's something there.

It would be cool to know which route(s) your friends like to take.

[vanderbale]

Do your own thing, stay safe and sticky tires do help. It sounds to me like your mates have probably ridden these particular roads a lot so they're overly confident taking the corners.

[Nobby the Bastard]

The only times I've got to the edge of a tyre and scraped a peg was as a precursor to sliding along the road on my arse.

The road is not a racetrack. Ride accordingly.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[chickenstrip]

[stinkwheel]

I ride with some guys who are, frankly, superb road riders. They are fast and smooth and I've never seen anyone pass them. Several are pretty proficient racers (one of them rides at the front of the grid in the Ducati Due championship, another has a sponsored ride in the Spa classic endurance race next weekend).

I can honestly say i have NEVER seen one of them with their knee down on the road and I've only ever seen showers of sparks if they overcooked it. As I say, I have never seen someone pass the front runners in our pack.

I have however seen someone ride a Ducati 900ss with full panniers, a tent and a slab of lager on the parcel rack, round the outside of GSXR1000 rider who had his knee down.

So yeah, your mates are arses. I don't hang about and I can only keep the faster guys in sight for 5 or 6 corners.

In terms of yourself, fit good tyres, have a look at suspension setup (particularly static sag), make sure your wheels are aligned. Then keep it smooth and look at where you want to go. If you don't know about vanishing points, that's worth knowing about.

Keep your speed steady, braking hard into corners will upset your balance. If it feels smooth and slow, it's fast. I've sat on the Glencoe road doing a steady 80mph all the way and have had guys claiming to have been doing 130 to keep up with me. The throttle is not an on-off switch, nor are the brakes. Smooth, Smooth, Smooth. Speed will happen by itself.
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[chickenstrip]

[stinkwheel]