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ULEZ Loophole

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Kawasaki Jimbo
World Chat Champion

Joined: 09 Oct 2015
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PostPosted: 21:43 - 04 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Sod wrote:
I thought of starting a new thread for this, but it's a bike forum.

So picking up on Bhud's mention of population reduction - it might be closer than we think. Stretching out a bit here:

What nonsense! Dr Graham Downing is also an anti-vaxxer, anti-AI, anti-whaddyagot? He's a scare-mongering "doctor" in the style of American quacks. The tin foil hat brigade love giving him their money and he's very happy to take it.
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Scooby Slapper

Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 22:58 - 09 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Newcastle upon Tyne is seriously considering a low emissions zone.
The problem is, the city is quite compact and the zone is compounded by the central group of bridges over the Tyne. There's also Central Motorway skimming the edge of the city center. Obviously for maximum profit the proposal includes those major city links. I won't even go into mentioning the major hospital within the proposed zone which isn't served well by public transport..

We all know the things are invented to raid pockets. One of the Newcastle monitoring sites for air pollution was actually placed beside a bus station and just before the exit traffic control lights. It means a constant supply of a waiting buses aiming their exhausts at the sensor! People complained but the council refused to listen and added the pollution figures to the plan for the zone.
(struggling to find the link for that monitor and complaints but it's out there)

Absolutely right Sledge. That air monitor by the Civic Centre which now shows high levels of PM10s at peak times is constantly being affected by buses queuing up because of the new 'green' traffic scheme which now blights John Dobson Street. The council created that problem and now seek to charge us for it. The same can be said about the ridiculous grid locked situation on Freeman Road outside the Freeman Hospital. Traffic lights which run a pedestrian cycle for thirty seconds every cycle whether or not a pedestrian is there and has pressed the button to cross. Then we could mention the congestion at Four Lane Ends created and certainly added to by the closure of Killingworth Road for TWO FUCKING YEARS just supposedly to widen a metro bridge which didn't need widening - now compounded by more roadworks in the same area for months at the five way junction at the bottom of Freeman Road. The cuntsil is run by complete morons and they know they can get away with anything at all, no matter how unreasonable and how totally fucked up because its a Labour council and this is Newcastle.

The best thing I ever did was sell up and move up the Tyne Valley between Hexham and Haltwhistle. Empty roads - no ULEZ and no pestilential Labour moron council fucking everything up. The only downside is that I need to go back there to visit my family at weekends so I expect unless I ride my Street Twin I will get hit by a charge.
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Scooby Slapper

Joined: 18 May 2018
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PostPosted: 23:10 - 09 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Old Sod wrote:
Follow the money.
DEFRA pollution forecasts:

We are constantly bombarded with how London has high pollution levels. Yet check out the DEFRA site above, and scan any other part of the UK.

I've been banging on about this elsewhere for ages. The authoritative pollution monitoring network is the DEFRA one and it hardly ever shows high pollution anywhere in the UK outside one or two hotspots. You can drill down into any of about 160 sites up and down the country and 98% them never show bad air quality.
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Trackday Trickster

Joined: 11 Oct 2018
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 10 Jul 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

It looks like the proposal says that motorcycles will be lumped in with all other private vehicles. [note: bold highlighting was added by me]

Motorcycle Action Group wrote:

MAG - Central Office via mag-uk-list <>

14:42 (53 minutes ago)

to me, mag-uk-list
News from the Motorcycle Action Group (MAG)

How many pre-Euro3 motorcycles need to be charged to offset NOx
emissions from an Airbus A320?

This version: 2019 07 10

The Motorcycle Action Group (MAG) has expressed anger on discovering
that the proposed Heathrow Ultra Low Emission Zone (HULEZ) will include
a charge on older motorcycles.

Proposals for a charge for more polluting vehicles driving to London’s
Heathrow Airport terminals were announced in May this year. Despite the
press reports suggesting that the HULEZ would mirror Sadiq Khan’s Ultra
Low Emissions Zone, there was no readily available information to
confirm whether the charge would affect motorcycles.

MAG’s Director of Communications & Public Affairs, Lembit Opik, commented:

“It would seem unlikely to anyone with an ounce of common sense that a
charge on road vehicles will do anything to reduce overall emissions in
anything approaching a meaningful way when opening an entire new runway
at Heathrow Airport. Despite this, Heathrow seem intent on virtue
signalling their way through a consultation on this very idea. Imagine
our disgust, therefore, when we discovered that the plan even proposes
to repeat Khan’s basic error of charging a transport mode proven to help
reduce emissions. How many pre-Euro3 motorcycles do they think it would
take to emit the same amount of NOx as an Airbus A320?!”

Director of Campaigns & Political Engagement, Colin Brown said:

“The proposal to include pre-Euro3 motorcycles in this daft scheme was
hidden deep – very deep. In fact it was buried so deep that we had to
specifically ask for confirmation on the subject. The response shocked
me. Yes, Heathrow are proposing to exactly copy the London Mayor’s
illogical policy on motorcycles.
They seem somewhat embarrassed about
this though, as the reference to motorcycles is hidden away in a single
table of emissions standards buried on page 229 of a 444 page ‘Surface
Access Proposals’ document.

“Needless to say MAG will be making a formal response to the
consultation, and we encourage all bikers to follow suit. There is
simply no justification for this charge to be imposed.”

The consultation can be accessed via the Heathrow consultation website The consultation covers an
enormous amount of detail on a host of different subjects including:

• a Preferred Masterplan for expansion;
• plans to operate the future airport;
• preliminary assessment of the effects of the airport’s growth;
• plans to manage the effects of expansion.

If you only wish to respond on the particular issue of the proposed
HULEZ, MAG recommends that you use the email response option by emailing
your comments to
The closing date
for the consultation is 13th September 2019.

Contact MAG at 01926 844 064 or

All of this is highly nebulous at the moment (Heathrow keeps floating new additions and ideas), so I suggest that making our views heard in opposition isn't entirely a waste of time.

Also, take note of this:

TL;DR version:

Heathrow's PR company proposed a ULEZ of some sort to affect the expanded Heathrow area, being very unspecific about the details, to start in 2026.
MAG asked them for details (do they propose to copy the London ULEZ, and do they propose to include motorcycles). Their answer was yes.
Heathrow's PR company as of now proposes bringing ULEZ forward to 2022, not 2026, and scrapping the ULEZ in 2026, to replace it with a single "private vehicle" charge to encompass all private vehicles regardless of emissions, "to encourage the use of public transport."
The consultation is ongoing.
* Note: Heathrow's PR company seems to me to be also greasing a few palms... Councillors and MPs are engaged in efforts to sway/influence the herd by making statements in papers in surrounding areas (PR stunts such as declaring a climate emergency, trotting out the schoolkids with their fingerpaint, etc.)
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