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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 15:50 - 05 Aug 2019    Post subject: Battery DIY replacement. Reply with quote

Has anyone replaced their own battery? I need to replace a 36V 10AH batteri in a tricycle, and I'm wondering whether or not to go for 3x12v lead acids, or try to build a Li-ion one from 18650s. What's in at the moment is those cells-in-bags which are considerably bulged, and U/S.
Weight... cost... issues...
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 23:19 - 04 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is this all done & dusted now, if so what did you do?
I replaced my lead acids with lithium ions, but won't bore you with the details if you've sorted it.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:43 - 04 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
Is this all done & dusted now, if so what did you do?
I replaced my lead acids with lithium ions, but won't bore you with the details if you've sorted it.

No. The poxy thing's still blocking up my wood workshop, which I can hardly get into because of stuff like that. The battery is outside in case it "does something". The cells in it aren't 18650s, they're flat (well, supposedly flat) things "in bags".
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 05:07 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like Lithium Polymer batteries.

I build batteries for ebikes. Is that the sort of thing you're after?
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 11:32 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

No. The poxy thing's still blocking up my wood workshop, which I can hardly get into because of stuff like that. The battery is outside in case it "does something". The cells in it aren't 18650s, they're flat (well, supposedly flat) things "in bags".


My original lead acids were 12kgs, the lithium replacement was 7kgs, with the same capacity, but at 48V. I wouldn't choose the lead acid route

Ok, if Easy-X is correct you already have lion batteries... we have questions, which'll save loads of posts.
1. What make of tricycle.
2. Factory fitted electrics or retro/DIY.
3. Power of the motor.
4. Part Number of existing 'bags', and confirm quantity.
5. Declared voltage & mAh output, (the Chinese seem to be in a badge engineering war with fictitious capacities).
6. Photos would really help.

Cool
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:03 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

TBH you don't even need all that. Just give us the spec of the motor(s) i.e. expected voltage and maximum power output.

For example, if the motor is "36V, 250W" one would need to account for a surge of ~400W....

I make 18650 battery packs and for such a motor I would use 10 batteries in series and 3 or 4 in parallel. (More in parallel = more capacity both for range and maximum power output.)

I spot weld the batteries together with nickel strips and then solder on a BMS PCB (battery management system) and then it's just a case of packaging.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 13:35 - 05 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
...

I make 18650 battery packs and for such a motor I would use 10 batteries in series and 3 or 4 in parallel. (More in parallel = more capacity both for range and maximum power output.)

I spot weld the batteries together with nickel strips and then solder on a BMS PCB (battery management system) and then it's just a case of packaging.


Nice... have you got any pics of your batteries? really interested in the spot welding.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 01 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, sorry for the delay, I've just found the battery. My info inline.
GettinBetter wrote:
Ok, if Easy-X is correct you already have lion batteries... we have questions, which'll save loads of posts.
1. What make of tricycle.

It's a Batribike Trike 20 with a horizontal battery box under the rear basket.

2. Factory fitted electrics or retro/DIY.

I think that the battery is the original one.

3. Power of the motor.

Motor: 250W front hub brushless

4. Part Number of existing 'bags', and confirm quantity.

As attached photo, I hope.

5. Declared voltage & mAh output, (the Chinese seem to be in a badge engineering war with fictitious capacities).

Hm, tricky. Battery Power: 36v 10Ah (from: https://www.e-bikesdirect.co.uk/brands/batribike/batribike-trike-20-electric-trike)

6. Photos would really help.

Attached.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 15:42 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah, you forgot a piccy of the bike...

Can't quite make out the first couple of characters of that battery part number (looks like JD7065120PP ?)

Ok, So 20 packs at 3.2V = 64 V
So they must be 10 in series and 2 in parallel, giving 32V.
Fully charged they would actually be around 3.4/3.5 maybe higher and hence closer to the 36V expected.

Until it's tested you can only assume the control system, and the BMS is working fine, same goes for the charger.
Have you ever used the bike/had it running? That would clear some of those issues up.

If it's just batteries then replacing like for like (if still obtainable) is the easiest option.

I'd search for same:
1. Voltage.
2. Capacity (or better, but remembering anything that sounds too good to be true... ).
3. Discharge rate (Very important).
4. Charge Rate (Very important).
5. Dimensions (if you want to use the same case).

Searching will at least give you some idea of the costs involved.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 18:53 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
Ah, you forgot a piccy of the bike...

There's a sales video here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vt7z0udPT_4

It's one of these tilting things that is safer when cornering than a rigid, although it feels very dodgy until you know what to expect. It belonged to an elderly relative who won't be using it any more, and it's been bunging up my wood shop for too long.



Can't quite make out the first couple of characters of that battery part number (looks like JD7065120PP ?)

I *think* it's that.

Ok, So 20 packs at 3.2V = 64 V
So they must be 10 in series and 2 in parallel, giving 32V.
Fully charged they would actually be around 3.4/3.5 maybe higher and hence closer to the 36V expected.

Until it's tested you can only assume the control system, and the BMS is working fine, same goes for the charger.
Have you ever used the bike/had it running? That would clear some of those issues up.

I have been on it, about 3 1/2 years ago, and it would do about a mile before phutting out, I assume with flat batteries.

If it's just batteries then replacing like for like (if still obtainable) is the easiest option.

I'd search for same:
1. Voltage.
2. Capacity (or better, but remembering anything that sounds too good to be true... ).
3. Discharge rate (Very important).
4. Charge Rate (Very important).
5. Dimensions (if you want to use the same case).

Searching will at least give you some idea of the costs involved.

I will have a look. It seems that since I last looked, a couple of years ago, the price has risen.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 00:15 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

This looked interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNksyf2VqKo

Might also be worth sending a generic email to a couple of Batribike dealers to see if they can supply a new one, you never know... might be reasonable, compared to all the faffing to replace the cells.
Just a thought...

Also this company seems to be highly recommended.. so no harm in asking..https://ebikebatteries.co.uk/contacts/
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
This looked interesting...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNksyf2VqKo

Might also be worth sending a generic email to a couple of Batribike dealers to see if they can supply a new one, you never know... might be reasonable, compared to all the faffing to replace the cells.
Just a thought...

It's possible I can get a replacement. However, there are a couple of options.

1) Buy another complete battery pack & charger, e.g. Samsung one here: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000290976528.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.664b1992i1hc9y&algo_pvid=3c98252a-8ab7-48f5-b070-546e0922830a&algo_expid=3c98252a-8ab7-48f5-b070-546e0922830a-2&btsid=0b0a0ac215831923706583507eff89&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_ and stick it in the existing casing, easy to do, IF it's likely tpo work...

2) Re-cell, see if the charger works, PITA, no guarantee other components OK.

3) Replace the battery with 3 x lead acid e.g. 12V 15Ah = (90-ish, trihe so pooh to weight).

4) A Batribike battery (unsure if available for "old" models) is nearly 400.


Sort of tempted by (1), but I freely admit I have not the faintest idea whatI'm firing at, or whether that would work. It looks as though it might. What do you think, please?
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 20:17 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
...

3) Replace the battery with 3 x lead acid e.g. 12V 15Ah = (90-ish, trihe so pooh to weight)....


Just a thought, but I still have the three 12V lead acid batteries I took out of my bike, I don't know how far away you are but you're welcome to try them to see if you bike runs ok? Hell you can even have them if you want?
They where only a year old when I acquired the bike from my brother, he was a bit miffed when I told him I'd lobbed his trusty batteries, but hey I bought it, so can do what I like.... that was a year ago I keep them charged.

On the other hand, this is no quick fix, if you want to do it properly, there are countless options available, and after days even weeks of surfing the net you'll settle on something you can live with. Also there's a ton of research if you're new to electronics. Getting familiar with the subject takes time.

I had a look for that part number, and didn't find anything. Maybe there's a cross referencing/equivalent list, out there somewhere, that'll be the next step?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Making your own battery packs is the almost the most economical but certainly the safest. No idea what cells they've used in cheap Chinese battery packs.

Downside is you'd need to have a battery spot welder.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 20:02 - 05 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Downside is you'd need to have a battery spot welder.


I never used a spot welder, here's mine.. attached.
48V 31.5Ah (126 18650 @ 14S9P)

I did make a spot welder but wasn't happy with it, connections weren't 100%, also I preferred to use copper connections so never used the coil of nickel strip I bought.

Ran it to work and back through the summer gone (34 mile round trip), charged it at work.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 05 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with soldering is the potential for damaging the cell. Spot welding is just a jolt so not too much heat being thrown in. Also a lot quicker, once you get into the swing of it.

I've just got a cheap Chinese spot welder: does the job as long as it doesn't overheat. The tricky bit is finding pure nickel strip over nickel plated crap.
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G
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PostPosted: 15:21 - 06 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lots of good deals on ebay/aliexpress/etc.
I got an unused 20AH 36v with base plate for pannier rack and charger for 150 and a new 52V 13AH UPP (with branded cells it says, unbranded ones cheaper) made for tube mounting with nice bracket for 218 delivered with charger.

At those prices, I don't think I'd bother faffing with

I've also paid 200 for a LifePo4 16S (52v) battery listed at 60AH! (But this was parter of a much bigger purchase.)
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