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Harley-Davidson Needs a New Generation of Riders

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:15 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
I prefer my Nike trainers to go running when they are no better than my Tesco versions but the tick on the side makes me feel good!


I can't get my head around this!
I must try painting a tick on the side of my old raggedy trainers and see if it really works Laughing

Quote:
Think about the bike you would buy if you won the lottery.


Lots of bikes I'd like to try, but they'd be wasted if I owned them. A 1980s NSR500 springs to mind Laughing
I'd refresh the bike I have and do lots more touring Smile
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G
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PostPosted: 13:26 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
Triumph Daytona - owned one 3 years back - fabulous machine but for me under powered (I'm into +110 pounds of torque which is what real men prefer (joke))

Power ≠ torque.
And we don't really notice torque at the engine, but at the back wheel.
Pretty much any Triumph Daytona* will lift the front wheel at any point in first gear. Having more torque than that in first gear won't help you go faster, just lift the front up quicker.
First gear typically takes you to around 75mph. The 675 is geared for around a genuine 160mph as stock.
I'm not sure what the fat bob is geared for, but it's listed top speed is 110mph. It's going to be horribly aerodynamic, but my KTM 690 is going to worse and was still just gearing limited at that kind of speed.
Gear the Dayotona you had for 110mph in top gear and you'll find you have a hell of a lot more torque at the back wheel.

*After the 900/1200 at least, I haven't ridden them and they're pretty damn old now.

Quote:
Well if I like a bit of admiration, that's my business surely.

Absolutely - if you've bought the bike because of how you believe some other people will perceive you and you're happy with that, that's fine.
But appreciate that a lot of people like bikes for the riding more than the "Wild Hogs" image some present.
And that again, a lot don't consider heavy, slow, poor ground clearance, slow steering, poor braking to be 'rides great'. If you actually do enjoy those aspects, quite fair enough.

Justifying spending loads of money on terribly performing really expensive bikes that are all about giving a perceived image has always been fashionable amongst those that make those choices.
As is claiming that "it's not outdated", when from a technological and performance and performance stand point it clearly is and massively so.
If you like the image and are willing to pay well above the odds for that, quite fair enough; but let's not pretend it's anything but a polished turd!
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 13:27 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
Ah good, a few brave fellows are sharing their bike identities to knock now.


Go ahead and "knock" them then. They said they'd take you up on your claims to have superior speed, handling and stopping power. I'd love to see that.

The truth is, nobody was even thinking about you, and I doubt anyone even knows you, but you chose to step in and take Harley's failings, being discussed impersonally on an internet forum, personally. This was supposed to be a discussion about Harley Davidson the company, and where it's gone wrong, but you had to wade in with your hollow claims as if it were about you. You're 70 years old, and you still think like a petulant teenager.

This has happened before:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=326643&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=175

When I said I didn't like Harleys, you reacted with fury, and demanded to know what I rode. I revealed I rode a Yamaha 600 Diversion. It will run rings around yours, handling, stopping, and top speed too, probably. It's not who I am (saying this for the benefit of others - not you because I know you think I'm lying). It's something I own. And it's not my only working bike.

Fact is, your bike is inferior to most bikes on objective grounds as a machine. The fact you like it has nothing to do with anything. Why do you think your likes and dislikes matter? In that thread, I told you that everyone was free to laugh at my bike. It's true. I didn't design it, I didn't build it, I was just one of several successive owners over 20-or-so years.

Quote:
Actually my taunt was a ploy because I'm not into insults - if we own a bike, it's great. I've been in biking for a half century


Have you now? No, I don't think so.

The post you deleted in this thread mentioned bikes you claimed to have owned in the last 10 years. It was a big list of new superbikes, ending in the Harley you currently own. You say you're 70 years old. A quick search on this forum reveals that you claim you had a 250 "25 years ago" and hated it because it was "so slow". No, here's what I think. You're lying.

The truth is, you didn't have a licence for most of your life, which is why you rode a 250, probably a lot more than 25 years ago, and "hated" it. This is because, under the old licence regime, you were allowed to ride a 250 on a provisional licence (unlike the 125 you can ride now). When you retired you got your payout, and used it to get yourself a licence, and to give yourself a retirement gift of a motorcycle. Not a luxury car, not a villa in the south of France, no. A motorcycle. You had a lot of catching up to do. That long list you published then quickly deleted on plausibility ground - 20 bikes or so (I wonder how many were "owned" in the head) in the "last 10 years" - reveals your hand. You want to be respected, above everything. This isn't forthcoming, you know this now, you have lots of experience of being called out, and you've downgraded your outcome from "being respected on the internet" to "being acknowledged as an experienced rider", or at least "not a bullshitter".

The trouble is, it doesn't work. You claim to have owned and ridden a Daytona 675 and other sportsbikes, and claim your Harley is faster and handles better. The only person who would make such a claim is a person with extremely limited experience.

Quote:
and know that no one likes it when someone says their bike is rubbish


You remember all those times when people around you told you they didn't care what people thought of them, that their car/wife/girlfriend/watch/clothes didn't define who they were, etc.? And you laughed? Remember that? All those people were liars, and everyone thinks the same, according to you. It's no good me pointing out that time I said everyone was free to laugh at my bike. You think I'm lying. I know why that is but you never will. No good trying to convince a narcissist that they are a narcissist, because they will never accept it - they are never wrong. But I will expose you here.

Quote:
, let alone they are an 'uncool' individual - bit immature really!


In the context of a discussion of why Harley Davidson is in trouble, and how it's perceived by people young and old, and you think it's all about you, and get triggered by a random stranger's observation that HD is uncool (i.e. not admired by young people). And you're 70 years old (or more, I would be a fool to believe everything you say without evidence)! That's your level of psychological maturity.

Quote:
Ok - Triumph Sprint - great bike, practical but not so hot on image


Who asked you what you think about a bike you've probably never ridden? You invited anyone to challenge you to a race to prove your Harley is faster. You've got at least a couple of offers here. So what do you say?

Quote:
(image doesn't matter? ....well I prefer my Nike trainers to go running when they are no better than my Tesco versions but the tick on the side makes me feel good!) Triumph Daytona - owned one 3 years back - fabulous machine but for me under powered (I'm into +110 pounds of torque which is what real men prefer (joke))


If it's true you ever rode one, then it seems you don't know how to use the revs or the handling. This can be explained by a lack of experience.

Quote:
I'm told I buy bikes for the wrong reasons - well if I like a bit of admiration, that's my business surely.


Yes, that's your business. What you say you value in a bike is not performance or any objective criterion that can be measured, but the approving nods you believe you get from lorry drivers. You're at least 70 years old and you would have us believe this. Sad, if what you say is true.

Well, there's something you missed out. Admiration is as important to you here on BCF as much as it is in truck drivers' windscreens. Did you feel you got enough of it in this thread?

Quote:
My Harley rides great


Downgraded to "great" rather than having better performance and stopping and handling power than any other bike? I know what you really mean, though. You've spent some money and you're not getting the respect you feel you bought. The bike doesn't matter, etc.

Quote:
and has image.


We discussed the image, or tried to, and then you got upset even though you weren't in the discussion. I know why this is, but like I said, I wouldn't waste my time trying to tell you what you are - you would never accept it.

Quote:
I like both those things. Some less experienced riders would be scared shirtless on my steed in it's current state of tune.


I think with all your exaggerated claims, you're treating us like idiots, and we are not idiots. You laid down the gauntlet and there are several takers here, so be about what you say. You are the inexperienced one, and you now have to go to great lengths to cover it up with blah blah blah to maintain this mask which has long since slipped.

Quote:
Still, each to our own. Harley knocking is quite fashionable, I know. HD riders are fairly immune to jibes.


Show me one "jibe" in this thread that didn't come from you. The fact is, you're an inexperienced rider, you're oversensitive and now you have to go to great lengths. New account time.

Quote:
Contrary to comments, they are not all wallies
!

Nobody even claimed "all Harley riders are wallies". You are a wally, but I didn't say you were. I just quoted a book, and you were triggered by it. Remind me once more how old you are.

Quote:
Race track, handling, bhp, image....all bollocks.


That's not what you said before.
Oh yes, that was just a joke, wasn't it? A cunning tactic/"ploy" in discussion, a strategem just like we "all" use on internet discussion forums with strangers, because everyone in this world is a narcissist and everyone thinks the same. Sure sure.

Quote:
We ride what we ride. I chose my bike because I like it a lot.


Has anyone here asked what you ride?
No, you asked us, we have all told you, now make good on your BS claims or shut up.

Lots of "admiration" to be won here. I look forward to seeing the footage.


Last edited by Bhud on 13:32 - 16 Oct 2019; edited 1 time in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:30 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

some deranged idiot wrote:
some riders woukd be scared shitless of my bike in its current state of tune


Yes, scsred shitless thatll it'll vibrate my fucking fillings out if I tried to get it anywhere near my usual commuting speed.

II dont need a bike for image, my sparkling personality and appearance do that for me. Only sad fucks buy stuff in the hopes it'll give them an image. Poor bastards.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

some deranged idiot wrote:
some riders woukd be scared shitless of my bike in its current state of tune

You say that, but at the same time my 32 y.o. single cylinder motorcycle would not only outrun that beast of yours, but I would also be able to do so without pushing it back home after a couple of miles.

Which reminds me, if you ride Hardly a Davidson, especially if it's in a state of tune that would scare others shitless, wear some comfy shoes or make sure you know the public transportation timetables well enough. Razz
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 14:51 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
Which reminds me, if you ride Hardly a Davidson, especially if it's in a state of tune that would scare others shitless, wear some comfy shoes or make sure you know the public transportation timetables well enough. Razz

Hm. Bicycle clips. They're a good idea if someone's going to be scared shitless.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh deary me, this hasn't turned out well for our cruiser friend. Laughing

Don't worry biker 7, I know exactly where you are coming from because as well as my bikes, I drive a Jaguar Embarassed

An overly expensive choice which has a reputation of being the vehicle for older gents who like upmarket cars yet don't want to drive one of Germany's finest despite all it's faults.

There is no reason for my or your s̶t̶u̶p̶i̶d̶i̶t̶y̶ idiosyncrasy however the difference is I know there are faster, better handling cars out there so won't go on the car message boards and tell them my Jag will beat all comers. You obviously haven't learnt that yet.

Oh, and I'd beat your tractor with an 1800 Goldwing while playing Vivaldi's 4 seasons on the stereo, smoking a fag and getting a hand job from wifie on the back, really. Thumbs Up
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Every now and then this forum delivers beautiful content.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:


Oh, and I'd beat your tractor with an 1800 Goldwing while playing Vivaldi's 4 seasons on the stereo, smoking a fag and getting a hand job from wifie on the back, really. Thumbs Up


Now we have a challenge! Laughing
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TheWhiteBaron
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PostPosted: 16:59 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
Every now and then this forum delivers beautiful content.


Only reason I'm here, has been a great laugh chaps Laughing
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

OP sees....

https://www.bikeme.tv/wp-content/uploads/0U4A0200-620x350.jpg

I see....

https://www.lucyworsley.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/01/arrmour-codpiece-231x300.jpg
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Ste
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby wrote:
I see

An incoming nsfw ban hammering? Shocked
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biker7
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bhud wrote:


Fact is, your bike is inferior to most bikes


Well yes, a Harley hater would obviously say that. Best £16k I ever spent. Very Happy Fast, handles well, brakes are excellent, looks good - read the reviews. The 'new' generation of HD's should be ready for the new riders this thread is discussing. Forum members, if you are in the market for a luxury bike, give one a test ride. Don't necessarily believe what's said against them - some individuals have other agendas, sometimes, nothing to do with motorcycles . I have owned several Harleys over the last 50 years and many other makes too (passed my test in '71) The early ones were a bit basic. Today, if you like feet forward bikes, Harleys have a lot to offer. Better not ask a hater but try one of the millions of Hog riders like me who are converts. If not, well, I'm sure you know what you like. I do Thumbs Up
PS. In case you think I'm a Harley nut - it's only partially true. A year ago I put 5k miles on my Hayabusa and loved every minute. The FB gives me the same adrenaline rush but with a bit more more comfort!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:45 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

5k in a mile eater like a busa is absolutely fuck all.

My commute is 10k a year and i ain't got no time for something like a harley when trying to filter through bristols traffic.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've put 1.5K on a cheap Korean single cylinder 250, in just over a week. 5K is fuck all for for a bike like that.

I still say my shitty, cheap, 250 handles better than your polished up Massey Ferg... sorry, Harley.
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biker7
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
5k in a mile eater like a busa is absolutely fuck all.


My commute is 10k a year and i ain't got no time for something like a harley when trying to filter through bristols traffic.


Better not buy one then Very Happy
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:41 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
Well yes, a Harley hater would obviously say that. Best £16k I ever spent. Very Happy Fast, handles well, brakes are excellent, looks good - read the reviews. The 'new' generation of HD's should be ready for the new riders this thread is discussing. Forum members, if you are in the market for a luxury bike, give one a test ride. Don't necessarily believe what's said against them - some individuals have other agendas, sometimes, nothing to do with motorcycles . I have owned several Harleys over the last 50 years and many other makes too (passed my test in '71) The early ones were a bit basic. Today, if you like feet forward bikes, Harleys have a lot to offer. Better not ask a hater but try one of the millions of Hog riders like me who are converts. If not, well, I'm sure you know what you like. I do Thumbs Up
PS. In case you think I'm a Harley nut - it's only partially true. A year ago I put 5k miles on my Hayabusa and loved every minute. The FB gives me the same adrenaline rush but with a bit more more comfort!


Hater? Is that the made up internet term that people like you use when they want to call someone a cxnt?

Also, by the definition of what a cruiser/chopper is, none of them is fast, none of them handles well and none of them brakes excellently. Sure, there were fast cruisers, but never with perfect handling and brakes, it's just not possible. Being fast = power, it can by done. Good handling and brakes = frame geometry, nope, can't be done. If you did alter the frame geometry to get good handleing and brakes, you would esentialy create a naked bike. If you wanted even better handling and brakes, you would create a sports bike.

If you are paid to promote HD, tells use by whom and we will inform them you failed your quest on selling us the product. If you just like HD motorcycle, good for you, however keep your obvious atempts to indoctrinate people into your nonsense for yourself.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:42 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

You've still not really convinced anyone that harleys are any good for anything other than impressing school kids.
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biker7
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

ThatDippyTwat wrote:


I still say my shitty, cheap, 250 handles better than your polished up Massey Ferg... sorry, Harley.


I had a 250. Handled great, I agree. Problem came when trying to do a fast overtake. You love Harleys then? Laughing
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 20:46 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
ThatDippyTwat wrote:


I still say my shitty, cheap, 250 handles better than your polished up Massey Ferg... sorry, Harley.


I had a 250. Handled great, I agree. Problem came when trying to do a fast overtake. You love Harleys then? Laughing


What 250?
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biker7
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PostPosted: 21:29 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Off topic and personal stuff aside, test a modern high powered Harley before you start being an 'expert'. This thread is about new generation issues. Some of the posts on this thread are just churning up old pub talk. Before I bought the Bob I test rode an MT10 and then the Bob. I loved the Yam but the Fat Bob seemed more exciting and handled better plus the brakes, new frame geometry and suspension are right up there with the best. This thread is about new generation Harleys - I suggest someone has the balls to go and try one. The only bike I did not try which I think might be as comfortable and awesome to ride is the Diavel but no dealer near me at the time. I was riding a Kawasaki 1000 (great) at the time and wanted to upgrade to something a bit more upmarket cos some of my mates ride top bikes. To be perfectly honest after experiencing the Busa's 100mph in first gear, I wanted power and feelgood. The Bob has nowhere the bhp of the Suzuki but on the drag strip the torque pulls it faster away. I did not choose the Bob - it chose me! I've always liked Harleys but the specs of old just did not measure up. I think HD are doing things right.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:38 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Have you recently come out as gay?
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G
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
The Bob has nowhere the bhp of the Suzuki but on the drag strip the torque pulls it faster away.

No.
From one site:
https://i.imgur.com/uE5Gk69.png

The Hayabusa isn't limited by a lack of torque or power pulling away.
It's limited by the front wheel lifting. The same as any bike with half decent tyres.
Long and low bikes SHOULD be better at pulling away, this is exactly how drag bikes are designed. But the power of a commuter 600 mixed with 50% extra weight ontop of bikes that have over double the power - any advantage isn't going to last long at all.

Had you considered 'a car'? Much better in comfort, handling and performance for a lot of options that are well under your price point.
You can replicate the attention you get by painting 'look at me' on the side of the car in big pink letters!

But seriously, I should note that the times I have ridden big cruisers, you absolutely do get kids staring, sometimes waving etc, much more than on other bikes.

Oh and one Harley I would like to try is an XR... but just checked... about 20hp less than my Speedway bike, but almost double the weight! It seems you do get gears and a brake however, which accounts for a bit of that.
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 22:24 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh and I meant to add - yes the fat bob does have more torque than the whisk I used to make pancakes earlier. But the whisk is only 20% down.

Which is why torque is a really silly way to measure a motor, actually.
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owl
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 16 Oct 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

biker7 wrote:
Before I bought the Bob I test rode an MT10 and then the Bob. I loved the Yam but the Fat Bob seemed more exciting and handled better plus the brakes, new frame geometry and suspension are right up there with the best.


Laughing

biker7 wrote:
This thread is about new generation Harleys - I suggest someone has the balls to go and try one.


You’d have to have pretty big balls, not because of the bike, but because of being seen in public on one.
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