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VOSA cracking down on bike MOT's

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Monkeywrenche...
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Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 11:03 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: VOSA cracking down on bike MOT's Reply with quote
got this this morning..

Quote:
More rigorous application of rules for motorcycle MOT standards

DVSA is now applying the rules for incorrect test standards for motorcycles more rigorously.

This is because motorcycles have fewer parts and missed defects on a motorcycle may have a greater impact on road safety than a similar item on a car or van.

For every failure item a tester misses when carrying out a test, 20 disciplinary points are given. 50 points or more in a single case can lead to short term cessation. This is shown in Appendix 8.6 of the MOT testing guide.

We randomly check both car and motorcycle MOTs to make sure tests are being carried out correctly and following appropriate procedure. This includes mystery shopper tests with defects.

We’re not changing the current rules, just the way we apply them. Cases will still be reviewed on their own merits and sanctions to testers and authorised examiners will be applied as we deem necessary.


Freindly MOT testers might get less so for a little while, or not, lets see.
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stinkwheel
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Joined: 12 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 11:16 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Got mine MOTed yesterday. Turns out I've been riding it since June with no MOT. Been all the way down the M6 and most of the M5 and on a Euro-trip.

Preparation consisted of putting the exhaust mute in for its annual trip out.

Zero fucks given. I know it's roadworthy, I don't need a piece of paper telling me so and it looks like no one else is checking except when I come to tax it.

It makes me wonder what would happen if I had the tax on DD and just let the MOT lapse.

But yes, VOSA can be sneaky. They are not above hiding round the corner, watching a bike being put on the system then stopping it on its way out and taking it back to the MOT station to be checked. Turns out VOSA inspectors can legally insist on this, not even the police can insist on your vehicle being inspected at the time of stopping unless it has an obvious defect like bald tyres (they don't like you to know this).
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Ste
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Joined: 01 Sep 2002
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Re: VOSA cracking down on bike MOT's Reply with quote
Monkeywrencher wrote:
got this this morning..

Sauce for anyone that's interested. https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/UKDVSA/bulletins/268a989
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A100man
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PostPosted: 11:25 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:


Zero fucks given. I know it's roadworthy, I don't need a piece of paper telling me so and it looks like no one else is checking except when I come to tax it.



Interestingly (or maybe not) a biker colleague of mine in the Netherlands told me there is no equivalent MOT there for bikes - any bikes! He had a ZZR600 IIRC.. so much for EU harmonisation eh?
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 11:38 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
A100man wrote:
Interestingly (or maybe not) a biker colleague of mine in the Netherlands told me there is no equivalent MOT there for bikes - any bikes! He had a ZZR600 IIRC.. so much for EU harmonisation eh?


I recollect that it was Germany who suggested a 'Super MoT Test' for the whole of the EU,with them as the people who would be at the centre for wording the procedures.

My brother-in-law lives in Germany and having four Triumph motorcycles has to present them for the TuV test.Some of those procedures in the motorcycle test there are VERY stringent and I have no doubt that many vehicles in Eastern Europe would be immediately scrapped.But this matter appears to have been dropped...maybe for the moment...for some reason.

I used to work in many MoT stations and some were far more stringent in the way that a test was carried out than in others.But where I take my bikes for MoT I respect that the tester has a job to do and that this can be called into question if a part of that procedure is not being adhered to.In Germany the TuV stations are run by the state.As we all know,in this country they are run by individual garages.To have UK MoT test centres run by the state would not be that easy,given that many UK Agency departments do not know their arse from their elbows.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 11:51 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
They already tightened things up a lot, for example they somehow log the time taken to do it.
One place locally used to have two bathroom scales with a plank between to work out the braking force part.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
A100man wrote:


Interestingly (or maybe not) a biker colleague of mine in the Netherlands told me there is no equivalent MOT there for bikes - any bikes! He had a ZZR600 IIRC.. so much for EU harmonisation eh?


The Dutch regard unroadworthy motorcycles as a self-limiting problem.
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1198
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PostPosted: 12:12 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
My new local recommended centre recently got spot checked. They pulled him for not failing their bike for no number plate light. He became much keener after that, at least for strangers turning up with bikes that were rather less than spotless...
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1198
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PostPosted: 12:15 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
They already tightened things up a lot, for example they somehow log the time taken to do it.
One place locally used to have two bathroom scales with a plank between to work out the braking force part.


They log you into the computer system when you arrive and they start the test, then when they have completed it. This may result in a customer sat round waiting while the tester runs the clock down if they were quite ‘speedy’ with the test...
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Monkeywrenche...
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Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 12:34 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
They already tightened things up a lot, for example they somehow log the time taken to do it.
One place locally used to have two bathroom scales with a plank between to work out the braking force part.


They have been able to check time taken eversince the system went computerised, they don't however see every test they see your average test time.

also how long ago was someone running a station without correct approved equipment? not recently, they know every single piece of equipment I have and it's serial number and require the keeping of accurate calibration records and it's been that way for a long time.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 12:47 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Pretty sure you can still use a spring balance and a set of scales for a brake test. Or a sliding floor. The scales and plank will have been to weigh the bike to calculate the brake effort.

My local guy was spot checked. They pulled him up on not spotting they'd taken the rubber grommet out of the filler cap... Pedants.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 13:13 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fizzer Thou wrote:
As we all know,in this country they are run by individual garages.To have UK MoT test centres run by the state would not be that easy,given that many UK Agency departments do not know their arse from their elbows.


Expect for the ones run by councils.

https://blog.liftshare.com/industry/comprehensive-guide-council-run-mot-centres
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Monkeywrenche...
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Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 14:23 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Pretty sure you can still use a spring balance and a set of scales for a brake test. Or a sliding floor. The scales and plank will have been to weigh the bike to calculate the brake effort.



Heres the list,

https://www.gea.co.uk/document-category/dvsa-acceptable-equipment/

Not on the list, can't be used, if it's yellow then you can use it (as long as it's calibrated and in good order) as long as your authority doesn't change.

You can't use a spring balance/ kitchen scales etc as they cannot be given approved calibration certs.

The penalty for testing with u calibrated equipment is 50 points per test, so 2 tests and they remove your authority to test
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 14:58 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Monkeywrencher wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Pretty sure you can still use a spring balance and a set of scales for a brake test. Or a sliding floor. The scales and plank will have been to weigh the bike to calculate the brake effort.



Heres the list,

https://www.gea.co.uk/document-category/dvsa-acceptable-equipment/

Not on the list, can't be used, if it's yellow then you can use it (as long as it's calibrated and in good order) as long as your authority doesn't change.

You can't use a spring balance/ kitchen scales etc as they cannot be given approved calibration certs.

The penalty for testing with u calibrated equipment is 50 points per test, so 2 tests and they remove your authority to test


That list can't be comprehensive because you DO sometimes need a weighing scale if you're using a sliding plate (decelerometer) to calculate the front/rear bias. Doesn't come into play much because they mostly use rolling roads. It does look like a kitchen scale even though it isn't one.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.
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Monkeywrenche...
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Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:

That list can't be comprehensive because you DO sometimes need a weighing scale if you're using a sliding plate (decelerometer) to calculate the front/rear bias. Doesn't come into play much because they mostly use rolling roads. It does look like a kitchen scale even though it isn't one.


I was commenting more on the Spring balance aspect, yes you can use scales to weigh (must be accurate to 5% etc) but the Salter type pull along tester went out way way back. Incidentally a Decelerometer is a portable device the sliding floor is called a Plate tester.

The Mot system has a database of vehicle weights built into the results entry for Brake tests.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 16:13 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I best keep on the good side of my tester then. Last time he did my 400 he was more concerned that I needed harder springs for track use than anything else!
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
I'm pretty sure that VOSA can only stop HGV and PSV vehicles for examinations or to see if they are HGV or PSV.

Can't see them having a leg to stand on if you fail to stop.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 17:52 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'm pretty sure that VOSA can only stop HGV and PSV vehicles for examinations or to see if they are HGV or PSV.

Can't see them having a leg to stand on if you fail to stop.


VOSA bloke on his own? Reasonable to argue it could be anyone with Hi-Vis on after your bike/car etc.

VOSA with a copper, as they almost always are? You get to pull over. Copper does the pulling over, VOSA does the rest.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 18:23 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
I'm pretty sure that VOSA can only stop HGV and PSV vehicles for examinations or to see if they are HGV or PSV.

Can't see them having a leg to stand on if you fail to stop.


VOSA bloke on his own? Reasonable to argue it could be anyone with Hi-Vis on after your bike/car etc.

VOSA with a copper, as they almost always are? You get to pull over. Copper does the pulling over, VOSA does the rest.


Years ago I was calibrating some MoT test equipment at New Cross bus garage and the VOSA bloke stationed there for testing PSV vehicles was bragging to me about how at one time he was sitting in a layby along Blackheath common and how he did see a HGV trundling along and how he took it within himself to 'give it a tug'.I said that only a uniformed plod person has the authority to do this,to which he said "I can.I am VOSA!" My reply was that if he was to stand in the middle of the road and try to stop me,I would happily run him over.Bit conceited in my opinion.

I have seen more recently opened motorcycle specific MoT centres and they now use slip plates to check wheel alignment,instead of two long lengths of bar to check this.I have seen the old Salter type ratchet and pulley devices in quite a few others,as well as rollers for brake testing.From what I remember,if the MoT centre has had the older equipment for many years there is no need to automatically update just because new testing equipment has come on to the market.

As for the calibration of test equipment,I used to do this on the majority of test bays,from brake testers to gas analysers to beam setters.Certain equipment can be checked in house,like the beam setters.

I remember going into local council MoT test centres for PSV,vans and cars,but not one for testing motorcycles.This may well have changed,but to date I have not seen one run by local authorities.
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 21:42 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:


It makes me wonder what would happen if I had the tax on DD and just let the MOT lapse.


Fuck all, they keep taking the tax. Id forgotten about the car MOT and the tax was taken for 3 months.
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andy_uk
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PostPosted: 22:28 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fisty wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:


It makes me wonder what would happen if I had the tax on DD and just let the MOT lapse.


Fuck all, they keep taking the tax. Id forgotten about the car MOT and the tax was taken for 3 months.


That's interesting...
My MOT was due to run out on 30/08
I got a letter a week or so before saying that the VED payment wouldn't go through because of this.
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Fisty
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 01 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
andy_uk wrote:


That's interesting...
My MOT was due to run out on 30/08
I got a letter a week or so before saying that the VED payment wouldn't go through because of this.


I got that letter a month after the MOT
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 01:15 - 02 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fisty wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:


It makes me wonder what would happen if I had the tax on DD and just let the MOT lapse.


Fuck all, they keep taking the tax. Id forgotten about the car MOT and the tax was taken for 3 months.


They keep taking the tax until the year is up, then they check for MOT and inform you.

So if you started a new road tax year in March, paying monthly by DD and your MOT expired in May, they will still take your road tax till March the next year despite your MOT being expired for 10 of those months.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 07:48 - 02 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Got mine MOTed yesterday. Turns out I've been riding it since June with no MOT. Been all the way down the M6 and most of the M5 and on a Euro-trip.

Preparation consisted of putting the exhaust mute in for its annual trip out.

Zero fucks given. I know it's roadworthy, I don't need a piece of paper telling me so and it looks like no one else is checking except when I come to tax it.


I've been in *very* similar situations several times - but when I found out what was going on paperwork wise I wondered if it was effectively riding without insurance because presumably its dependent upon a current MOT.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 08:11 - 02 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
I've been in *very* similar situations several times


https://www.gov.uk/mot-reminder
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