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Changing your biking habits cos of climate change

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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:07 - 28 Nov 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


If anything can be argued to be a fanatical religion, it has to be brexitism


Just LEAVE IT THE FUCK ALONE, WILL YOU?! Mad Laughing
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Robby
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PostPosted: 13:57 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think this thread is a good example of why policy-level change is required to do anything about CO2 emissions.

In this thread we have:
1. The deniers, possibly providing some of their own evidence, possibly just outright denying.
2. The don't cares. Don't care if its happening, not changing.
3. The justifiers. Even if it is happening, blame China. Or decide that the alternatives (electric cars, renewable power) aren't worth trying because you've thought of a way they might possibly be worse. Hint, they aren't worse, other people have had the same thoughts.
4. Those who won't change. I have my petrol bike, I like my petrol bike.

So the only way to get change is at a policy level. Make green electricity. Run everything on said green electricity. Make changing to electric things either attractive (cheaper, better, faster) or mandatory (ban selling petrol).

I would rather make the change to a green economy and find out I was wrong about climate change than not make the change and watch my house get flooded.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 14:40 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I still don't care Mr. Green

But I agree - it's down to governments to make the changes at policy level if we want to see anything actually effective happen, and I will put up with whatever the government enforces and learn to live with it. I won't give up ICE motorcycles voluntarily, although if I were in the position to buy (and never mind run) any vehicle, I'd consider an electric car, as cars don't mean the same thing to me*.

But individuals, most of whom are a bit hypocritical about it all anyway, aren't going to make a big difference alone. Besides which, the way society is set up makes it difficult to effect any real change at the individual level unless you're reasonably well off. If you are, feel free to lead the way.

*But there again, you don't get something for nothing, and I've yet to see proof that electric cars really are a more environmentally sound option than ICE-powered vehicles.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
I would rather make the change to a green economy and find out I was wrong about climate change than not make the change and watch my house get flooded.


But people are being asked to "make the change" and then their house gets flooded anyway.
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Robby
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PostPosted: 20:51 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:

*But there again, you don't get something for nothing, and I've yet to see proof that electric cars really are a more environmentally sound option than ICE-powered vehicles.


They are, but it doesn't mean everything is perfect. A large proportion of the electricity used to run them still comes from fossil fuels. The parts are made in fairly low numbers and few factories, so they are likely to travel further to build the car. The mining practices to get the battery ingredients are somewhat worrying and exploitative.

But that's now. Electric vehicles have the potential to get an awful lot cleaner. Whilst its currently an ethical or virtue-signalling (depending on your politics) thing to drive an electric car, when they are mainstream there will be more pressure from those same people to have a supply chain that doesn't exploit child miners, and renewable electricity.

I also don't see petrol getting banned, I just see it getting rare and expensive for those of us that do a few miles a year on a petrol bike in 2050. Right now, vehicles that are 40 years old don't pay road tax and are allowed in the central London ULEZ without paying a fee. I can see the same thing happening in the future. Once the policy-level change happens, no-one cares about the marginal cases of a few enthusiasts.
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RhynoCZ
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PostPosted: 21:13 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Fuck em. I don't care about your kids.

https://www.rouming.cz/upload/FYG.jpg
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:
Electric vehicles have the potential to get an awful lot cleaner.


How?

Quote:
virtue-signalling


I can assure you that isn't me Laughing

Quote:
ULEZ


This is an issue I can understand, if the death rate from city pollution is high. You only have to see the pictures of city smogs in the summer to know this can't be good (and it ain't just in China). But how to reduce traffic without vastly changing people's way of life? I can't see this, since people are very reluctant to give up convenience and luxury, understandably so, and rapid change has the potential to destroy whole national economies. This is the issue that doesn't seem to be receiving attention, but without it, I can't see us getting all that far.

Quote:
2050


As far as I'm concerned, a massive meteorite strike can happen then - I won't be around to see it Laughing
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:25 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

RhynoCZ wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Fuck em. I don't care about your kids.

https://www.rouming.cz/upload/FYG.jpg


Lacks blood stains.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:26 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

The most effective answer remains to substantially reduce the human population.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:28 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Robby wrote:
Electric vehicles have the potential to get an awful lot cleaner.


How?


New battery technology. I posted in a thread a few months ago where I listed 5 or so promising battery technologies which not only improve energy density but also add features such as being able to be incorporated into the structure of the vehicle and allow rapid charging. Admittedly there is no one technology that offers all of these advantages, but it's being worked on now.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:31 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:


New battery technology. I posted in a thread a few months ago where I listed 5 or so promising battery technologies which not only improve energy density but also add features such as being able to be incorporated into the structure of the vehicle and allow rapid charging. Admittedly there is no one technology that offers all of these advantages, but it's being worked on now.


What about materials, manufacturing processes and disposal at end of life?

Materials will always be finite, unless we can go mine an asteroid or something. But the population keeps growing. There must otherwise still be lifestyle change to reduce transport requirements overall.
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
MarJay wrote:


New battery technology. I posted in a thread a few months ago where I listed 5 or so promising battery technologies which not only improve energy density but also add features such as being able to be incorporated into the structure of the vehicle and allow rapid charging. Admittedly there is no one technology that offers all of these advantages, but it's being worked on now.


What about materials, manufacturing processes and disposal at end of life?


One of the examples was a carbon fibre based battery that would basically be the structure of the car. It has less toxic components and is made of something that is fairly abundant without having to stripmine. Disposal might be another issue, but a Lithium Polymer battery is safe for disposal once it's totally discharged, so I assume the same is true for these structural batteries. I didn't memorise the entire thread, but it's all very promising. Battery technology is the current technological holy grail, not just for the automotive industry but for mobile phones and all sorts of portable tools and devices. It won't take many years before we've got some amazing technology that was unheard of a few years ago. Just look at how much progress was made with the internal combustion engine in just 20 years, or with computing, or aerospace or whatever.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, they should crack on with that sort of technology, but it still doesn't mean I'm giving up my ICE bike. I'll likely be gone before that kind of thing is mainstream. Next generation's problem Razz
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:37 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Self driving electric cars will reduce transport requirements as owning your own vehicle will become a thing of the past.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:39 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
Self driving electric cars will reduce transport requirements as owning your own vehicle will become a thing of the past.


When?
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before there are wipers for visors but after there are torches for breaker bars. Thumbs Up

In theory there are meant to be self driving cars on the roads by 2021. So a few years after that as battery technology improves and self driving cars get cheaper, Uber drivers will be out of a job. The internet of things will become more and more like Skynet, we'll get to see how the Laws of Robotics work as devices will become smarter than humans.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:00 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:
It won't take many years before we've got some amazing technology that was unheard of a few years ago. Just look at how much progress was made with the internal combustion engine in just 20 years, or with computing, or aerospace or whatever.

Battery technology has been around for 200 years though, so progress has been comparatively slow despite great interest and effort. This makes me think there will be no huge step forward. It would have happened already.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:

In theory there are meant to be self driving cars on the roads by 2021.


How much have you bet on this?

Quote:
devices will become smarter than humans.


Doesn't seem such a huge advance considering the current crop Laughing
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Ste
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

0.00
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 23:18 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wise man! Laughing
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Shaft
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PostPosted: 23:21 - 02 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Robby wrote:

They are, but it doesn't mean everything is perfect. A large proportion of the electricity used to run them still comes from fossil fuels. The parts are made in fairly low numbers and few factories, so they are likely to travel further to build the car. The mining practices to get the battery ingredients are somewhat worrying and exploitative.

But that's now. Electric vehicles have the potential to get an awful lot cleaner. Whilst its currently an ethical or virtue-signalling (depending on your politics) thing to drive an electric car, when they are mainstream there will be more pressure from those same people to have a supply chain that doesn't exploit child miners, and renewable electricity.

I also don't see petrol getting banned, I just see it getting rare and expensive for those of us that do a few miles a year on a petrol bike in 2050. Right now, vehicles that are 40 years old don't pay road tax and are allowed in the central London ULEZ without paying a fee. I can see the same thing happening in the future. Once the policy-level change happens, no-one cares about the marginal cases of a few enthusiasts.


What's your opinion on hydrogen?
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stevo as b4
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PostPosted: 00:14 - 03 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

I appreciate Robby's views, but it depends on lots of things and peoples travel requirements, vehicle ownership requirements and also the age old issues of infrastructure and education.

Personally I'd love to have an electric company car or van, it would get lots of use and be suitable for alot of my business use. I'd also love a basic A-B commuter bike or car to do my essential journeys like shopping or general running about.

But I don't want an electric classic car, or summer show car or track day car. I don't want an electric classic bike or project vehicle, and it's my right to own such just for fun very low mileage use vehicles while thee is access to petrol and diesel fuels.

I could see the potential in an electric trials or MX bike, as it should allow events to continue in locations where they tried to build housing near a motorsports venue and then campaign to get it closed down due to residents noise nuisance complaints.

I'm not interested in banning myself from using non catylised petrol cars set up for performance not emissions, and riding two stroke bikes for my very limited leisure use for no serious purpose, because its a tiny mileage compared to any daily or commuting or commercial vehicle usage.

I guess I want to help and contribute to help reduce vehicle use and pollution from emissions, but not at the expense of my hard earned leisure time and my interest in old classic vehicles for non essential use.

Anyway instead of trying to force people against their will to use and own electric vehicles, should we not try and force them to waste less resources, food, energy, and not use vehicles when they could use public transport or exercise more for both environmental and health benefits.

If everyone could save 5000 commuting miles a year from cutting out commuting or smarter working habits etc, then shouldn't they all be allowed to have a de-catted TVR V8 for driving to car shows, or doing half a dozen track days a year instead? Isn't this what carbon offsetting and planting trees is all about?
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 07:35 - 03 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can any of the snowflake's & SJW's please tell me how a capitalist system that thrives on consumerism can ever possibly become environmentally friendly?
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 07:37 - 03 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackButler wrote:
Can any of the snowflake's & SJW's please tell me how a capitalist system that thrives on consumerism can ever possibly become environmentally friendly?


In the same way that a capitalist system that thrives on consumerism can provide healthcare free at the point of use?
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 09:03 - 03 Dec 2019    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
MarJay wrote:
It won't take many years before we've got some amazing technology that was unheard of a few years ago. Just look at how much progress was made with the internal combustion engine in just 20 years, or with computing, or aerospace or whatever.

Battery technology has been around for 200 years though, so progress has been comparatively slow despite great interest and effort. This makes me think there will be no huge step forward. It would have happened already.


I agree with this.

The only step forward that I can see has been lithium batteries and in many situations they are not as good as the old lead acid versions.

in 8 years they went from the first man in space to walking on the moon.

In 160 years they have gone from the lead acid battery to the umm Thinking fancier lead acid batteries with a lithium battery off shoot. Despite people like phone and electric car manufacturers spending small fortunes on battery technology.

I won't hold my breath for new battery technology.
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