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Bye Bye Win 7

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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 17:20 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

I shall miss you
Win 10 may be more secure but I'm not loving it

The BBC had an article about win7s' end of support and moving to Win10 for security (and buying new PCs to run it !)
but not one frigging mention of Linux as an alternative.

I've put Linux Mint on me lappy to see how I get on with it
if I get to grips with it I'll stick it on my main PC

I need a "Linux for lazy assed dummies who cant be arsed with all
that incomprehensible command line bollox" primer.
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Last edited by WD Forte on 17:24 - 13 Jan 2020; edited 1 time in total
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 17:23 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
I shall miss you
Win 10 may be more secure but I'm not loving it

The BBC had an article about win7s' end of support and moving to Win10 for security (and buying new PCs to run it !)
but not one frigging mention of Linux as an alternative.

I've put Linux Mint on me lappy to see how I get on with it
if get to grips with it I'll stick it on my main PC

I need a "Linux for lazy assed dummies who cant be arsed with all
that incomprehensible command line bollox" primer.


With the newer linux releases, you need never use the command line
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MarJay
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PostPosted: 17:25 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
I need a "Linux for lazy assed dummies who cant be arsed with all
that incomprehensible command line bollox" primer.


Laughing

Linux IS for command line g33ks brah. Either go Apple and pay a bomb, or sometimes the devil cuts the best deal. Windows 10 really is better once you get used to it.

Or go something like MorphOS and never have anything compatible ever again.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I sometimes run windows 7 in a virtual machine in Linux mint Debian Remix when the wifes garmin needs a software update (it can do the rest through the router).

This and altering the settings on my action cam are pretty much the only thing I've come across that I actually can't do on Linux.

Am I going to need to pirate a windows 10 ISO file from somewhere now?

Mrs stinkwheel uses ordinary Linux mint on her laptop, she certainly can't use the command line. I haven't had to touch it for ages. The only problem we really had with it was getting it to boot into the USB stick because it came with windows 8 which was a total abortion and had locked out the normal boot menu. Got it sussed in the end though.

That's one thing you can say about Linux, there is plenty of useful support out there.
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 18:06 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Laughing

Linux IS for command line g33ks brah. Either go Apple and pay a bomb, or sometimes the devil cuts the best deal. Windows 10 really is better once you get used to it.

Or go something like MorphOS and never have anything compatible ever again.


No, really, unless you're doing something out of the ordinary, you really don't need to use the command line on modern linux distributions, very, very easy to install & use
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 18:43 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:

Am I going to need to pirate a windows 10 ISO file from somewhere now?


They had a full downlaod from the MS site somewhere. I think it might have been around the Virtual PC area.


Quote:

That's one thing you can say about Linux, there is plenty of useful support out there.


There's also lots of crap too. With easy mode linux, finding more complex information can be a pain.
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The Shaggy D.A.
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Downloaded the latest Win 10 ISO direct from Microsoft today using this method, no problem.

https://www.majorgeeks.com/content/page/how_to_download_the_latest_windows_10_iso_images_directly_in_google_chrome.html
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McJamweasel
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PostPosted: 18:47 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Am I going to need to pirate a windows 10 ISO file from somewhere now?


You can download the installer from Microsoft and buy a legit key off ebay for about three quid.
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UncleBFester
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PostPosted: 19:14 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mint is the better of them but none of them are command line free if you want everything to work properly.

If you want Linux with a GUI that works - go OSX.
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Paddy.
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PostPosted: 20:54 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

McJamweasel wrote:
You can download the installer from Microsoft and buy a legit key off ebay for about three quid.


Exactly what I did
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

For the most part Windows 10 is detestable but you can at least make take the Start Menu back to Win7 style with something like Open-Shell (open-source on github)
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Confusion
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 13 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:

I've put Linux Mint on me lappy to see how I get on with it
if I get to grips with it I'll stick it on my main PC


Been there, done that in 1999 when I ditched Windows 98
and replaced it with Red Hat 6.0. No one had fast Internet
in those days, so I had to bring a blank CD-R to the local
Linux Users Group weekly meeting. They had a 4x CD burner
which was a cool thing to have back in the day.

I'm sure I still have that CD. I must dig it out and see if
it is still readable.

Quote:
I need a "Linux for lazy assed dummies.....


Mint should be ideal.


Quote:
...incomprehensible command line bollox" primer....


A graphical interface makes simple tasks even simpler and
complex tasks more difficult.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:41 - 14 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've been through the various "flavours" of Linux over the years and I keep going back to Debian - straight up with no ice.
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King29
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PostPosted: 12:45 - 14 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I put Linux Mint on an old MacBook, never really liked it to be fair. I put iOS 10.7.5 back on pronto. Maybe it's worth looking at for some, to me it just felt weird to use.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 01:27 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

MarJay wrote:

Linux IS for command line g33ks brah.


True. I've used Linux as my main OS at home for 20 years.
Every year it was "Year of the Linux Desktop". It never happened and never will.

Some Spanish and German local governments switched over 10 years ago.....but Berlin switched back again after 5 years I think.
Half the internet ran on Linux. Redhat became an S&P 500 company.
There is China of course.
But the UK barely flirted with it to any great degree.

Things were looking good though. App stores, before there were app stores. Decent security and pretty and consistent desktops.

But since 2010, development / advancement from an end user perspective seems to have plateaued.

But nevermind.


My PC also has Win10 (rarely use it, but for SQL Server for work stuff).
Which I installed in 2011 when built the PC.

I ran the free MS Windows 10 upgrade app on my PC this weekend, fully expecting to have to pay £15 for an OEM Win10 license to activate it. But no. It worked fine.

A perfectly legit upgrade and it cost nothing.

Most Win7 users are definitely not going to risk Linux, when Windows10 is free. Stating the obvious.
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Pigeon
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PostPosted: 01:42 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Re: Bye Bye Win 7 Reply with quote

Confusion wrote:

Been there, done that in 1999 when I ditched Windows 98
and replaced it with Red Hat 6.0. No one had fast Internet
in those days, so I had to bring a blank CD-R to the local
Linux Users Group weekly meeting. They had a 4x CD burner
which was a cool thing to have back in the day.


I was 2000 with SuSE 7.0. Bought from PC World on a whim really.
Couldn't believe it came with 6 CD's of stuff to install and these enormous and well put together instruction manuals. It was impressive, very German.
Wish I'd kept the box now.

Quickly moved onto Slackware and enjoyed upgrades at 7.4k/sec down dialup modem. Only buying from Slackware every couple of releases.

Stayed with Slackware for 10 years (tried various distros on route, but nothing clicked). And then switched to Ubuntu LTS because realised life was too short and I just lost interest in it beyond it just needing to do what I want it for.

My dad and Uncle have switched to Ubuntu since 2011 but thats largely because they know tech support is on the phone.
Although beyond setting up WiFi, a Printer and Scanner. Never had any calls except when it gets to LTS upgrade time.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:22 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:


With the newer linux releases, you need never use the command line


They say this with every release. I check and its basically the same as before. Even if they fixed the lousy UI and put a proper modern UI in place I still couldn't use it because the IDE I do most of my dev work in isn't supported on Linux. If people just want to do basic stuff like go on the internet, edit documents etc then they are all equivalent really. I want to do a lot of more advanced tasks and I can do them on windows but I would have to relearn to do them on Linux, and that is massive waste of time.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be fair with consumer use of Windows 10 you rarely need to touch the command line. But for business use it's pretty much essential... and on top of that you have some things you can do in Command Prompt (the old DOS box) and some in PowerShell - both operating entirely differently. Throw in the Linux subsystem and you could argue there are three command line interfaces to learn in Windows 10 Shocked

Yes, you'll get much more out of Linux if you have no problem with its terminal but at least there's only one and it operates pretty consistently across most flavours of Linux. (BSD is a bit different.)
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linuxyeti
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PostPosted: 14:59 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im-a-Ridah wrote:


They say this with every release. I check and its basically the same as before. Even if they fixed the lousy UI and put a proper modern UI in place I still couldn't use it because the IDE I do most of my dev work in isn't supported on Linux. If people just want to do basic stuff like go on the internet, edit documents etc then they are all equivalent really. I want to do a lot of more advanced tasks and I can do them on windows but I would have to relearn to do them on Linux, and that is massive waste of time.


Funny that, the last 2 places I've worked (totaling 20 years) the devs have all used Linux or Mac desktops. Databases, have been Oracle & Postgres, application servers have been Oracle Apps, Oracle E-Business, bespoke Java apps running in tomcat containers, more recently in my newer role, php, Node & mongo as well, all development tools available on Linux & Mac.

What's there to re-learn? Node, sql, psql, sqlplus, java, javascript, php, perl same language across the multiple platforms.

As for home use, no, there really isn't any need for the command line, my dad uses linux, and to put it mildly, he's a technophobe, my mum before she corked it also only used linux, my daughter uses Linux, and, has no issue switching between Windows & associated apps at school, and Linux and equivalents at home. As for photo editing, browsing, music editing, video editing and other standard type uses, again, any linux desktop from the last 7 or 8 years, you wouldn't have to resort to the command line, nothing stopping you if you want, but certainly no need to.

Also, to be fair, for the vast majority of home/casual users, it's a pretty mute point, as if what they want can't be installed from Google Play store onto an android device, they probably wouldn't use it. Home PC ownership is really becoming a thing of the past. More services are cloud based, probably hosted on EC2 instances in AWS, with storage on s3 buckets, without the end user even realising.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 21:24 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've used most of the Linux distros from Slackware in the early 90s up to Mint. They all have the same major issue that will cause problems for non-techy users, i.e. dependencies. Mint is the best of the bunch though and the nearest thing to ideal for standard users. These days I run Kali for professional reasons and Windows 10 for day to day stuff.

MacOS isn't Linux by the way. It's a highly bastardised development based on the excellent BSD implementation of Unix via the awful NeXTStep OS.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:09 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

linuxyeti wrote:
Im-a-Ridah wrote:


They say this with every release. I check and its basically the same as before. Even if they fixed the lousy UI and put a proper modern UI in place I still couldn't use it because the IDE I do most of my dev work in isn't supported on Linux. If people just want to do basic stuff like go on the internet, edit documents etc then they are all equivalent really. I want to do a lot of more advanced tasks and I can do them on windows but I would have to relearn to do them on Linux, and that is massive waste of time.


Funny that, the last 2 places I've worked (totaling 20 years) the devs have all used Linux or Mac desktops. Databases, have been Oracle & Postgres, application servers have been Oracle Apps, Oracle E-Business, bespoke Java apps running in tomcat containers, more recently in my newer role, php, Node & mongo as well, all development tools available on Linux & Mac.

What's there to re-learn? Node, sql, psql, sqlplus, java, javascript, php, perl same language across the multiple platforms.

As for home use, no, there really isn't any need for the command line, my dad uses linux, and to put it mildly, he's a technophobe, my mum before she corked it also only used linux, my daughter uses Linux, and, has no issue switching between Windows & associated apps at school, and Linux and equivalents at home. As for photo editing, browsing, music editing, video editing and other standard type uses, again, any linux desktop from the last 7 or 8 years, you wouldn't have to resort to the command line, nothing stopping you if you want, but certainly no need to.

Also, to be fair, for the vast majority of home/casual users, it's a pretty mute point, as if what they want can't be installed from Google Play store onto an android device, they probably wouldn't use it. Home PC ownership is really becoming a thing of the past. More services are cloud based, probably hosted on EC2 instances in AWS, with storage on s3 buckets, without the end user even realising.


I'm sure they did since most web back end services run on Linux. However, I don't run web services, and I don't code web services. About the most web thing I ever did was some DB interaction and a socket in Java I think Confused Most of what I do is ARM microcontrollers, Windows only.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 22:10 - 15 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
I've used most of the Linux distros from Slackware in the early 90s up to Mint. They all have the same major issue that will cause problems for non-techy users, i.e. dependencies. Mint is the best of the bunch though and the nearest thing to ideal for standard users. These days I run Kali for professional reasons and Windows 10 for day to day stuff.

MacOS isn't Linux by the way. It's a highly bastardised development based on the excellent BSD implementation of Unix via the awful NeXTStep OS.


At least they come with audio codes now Laughing
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 19:49 - 17 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Linux is fine, but it simply doesn't have the reach or scope in terms of what people can do with it.

I've tried the open source Linux alternatives for major utilities, like Open Office (or Libre Office or whatever it's called), GIMP, and a few other bits and bats. They're all miles away from the Windows versions i.e. MS Office, Photoshop etc. Windows also has more games, and it's less fiddly to get stuff done. Doing stuff via a command line isn't my idea of fun or convenience, sorry.

As for Windows 10, I think it's way better than Windows 7. Sure, loads of settings are hidden away in a dark corner and it has an annoying mollycoddled facade of unhelpfulness over everything, but it just doesn't bother me enough to wish I still had Windows 7. I wrote some software targeting Win 7 a few months ago and it was just a pain in the arse to do. Felt archaic. Windows 10 all the way for me.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 23:50 - 19 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've tried to migrate to Linux a few times, each time failed. Didn't last more than a couple of weeks before switching back. I can do 90% of what I need there, but the extra 10% that can only be done in Windows holds me back, and I'm not running a Win10 VM just for that - I might as well just keep a regular install.

For a lot of people it's definitely more viable now than it was a few years ago, but "the year of linux desktop" will be around the same time as nuclear fusion reactors...
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Lord Percy
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PostPosted: 19:46 - 20 Jan 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:
and I'm not running a Win10 VM just for that - I might as well just keep a regular install.


You quite easily can do the reverse now.

There's an Ubuntu Windows Store app which basically opens a little Linux VM, running Ubuntu. It's an easy one-click download, no need for making your own installing disk or whatever. It's easy to connect it to your Windows file system too.

That being said, I still don't see the appeal. I set it up a few months ago and have never even thought to use it. There just hasn't ever been a time where Linux offered something better than the standard Windows setup.
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