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Lithium battery.

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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:24 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Lithium battery. Reply with quote

I give up trying to maintain the Yuasa (a good make) 8Ah lead-acid battery on my ZX6R. Another one has died within a year. This wasn't a problem when I used the bike almost daily but that has declined for various reasons. As noted in other threads, the 10Ah Yuasa on my alarm-equipped R1 lasts much, much longer yet I can't find any evidence of parasitic drain on the Kawasaki. My garage has no power so I've relied on occasional top-ups using a charger plugged into a portable jump start. I've looked into getting a solar charger for constant maintenance but that doesn't seem practical.

Time to try lithium-ion because they are reputed to last longer when left idle. What brands are you using, and do you use a charger? Would a Turnigy Accucel 6 hobby charger be suitable? Does the bike's charging system remain standard? Thanks.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:33 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd be looking at why the battery is dying. Probably fucked reg/rec.

Sticking a lithium battery on a system that is overcharging is gonna result in a big ball of flames under your bollocks if you are lucky and an explosion in the same place e if you are unlucky.
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doggone
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If something is draining it slowly you might still need charging every couple of weeks.
Immobilisers and clocks are known issues - or a faulty component leaking power to earth.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:02 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I'm able to use the bike regularly there's no problem, it's storage which kills it. The R1's similar (though slightly larger capacity) battery is far more robust under the same circumstances, despite feeding an alarm too. In use the ZX6R doesn't let me down and the voltage is maintained so I've ruled out the reg/rec. I haven't been able to detect any parasitic drain on the ZX6R, though that seemed the most likely cause. Maybe the smaller 8Ah battery particularly hates the cold? In the absence of an identifiable cause a lithium battery might be a way to circumvent the issue. I know it's a crap approach to a problem but I've run out of ideas.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Surely a simple test is to disconnect the battery entirely if the bike's gonna be laid up more than a few days and see if you have the same problems. Is it just under the seat, nice and easy to get to?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 17:17 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
Surely a simple test is to disconnect the battery entirely if the bike's gonna be laid up more than a few days and see if you have the same problems. Is it just under the seat, nice and easy to get to?

That would tell me whether it's the bike which is bleeding the battery dry on storage but it still wouldn't point me to a dodgy component. It might also tell me whether these batteries just die of they're own accord (in the cold, say) but that's no good either, I need a battery to be ready in the bike whenever I want to use it.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 17:28 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
It might also tell me whether these batteries just die of they're own accord (in the cold, say) but that's no good either, I need a battery to be ready in the bike whenever I want to use it.

They don't die of cold unless they're flat anyway. They should be charged every 3 months or so if not in use. Either there's a power draw when it's idle, or there's a charging fault on your bike, or the battery is faulty (if under a year old claim on the guarantee).
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pepperami
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PostPosted: 19:01 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

doggone wrote:
If something is draining it slowly you might still need charging every couple of weeks.
Immobilisers and clocks are known issues - or a faulty component leaking power to earth.


This^+1 .
I have a Spyball alarm and immobiliser and they slowly suck the goodness from the battery.

Are lithium ion batteries that dodgy? Will I really end up in an exploding ball of flame if I fit one to my bike Shocked Crying or Very sad ?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

IF you don't need the battery connected when the bike's not in use:

https://www.altecautomotive.co.uk/100-amp-500amp-peak-brtop-qualitybr-battery-isolator-switch-br-altbm1-01-1126-p.asp
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 20:12 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lead/AGM batteries will last forever if you look after them. A friend has a 2003 954 that’s still on its original battery because it’s on a battery tender in his garage when it’s not being ridden.

As mentioned, lead batteries hate being anything less than 100% charged so if something’s draining it when the bike isn’t used then it’ll kill the battery off in short order. Either find the parasitic drain or put a battery kill switch on if you can’t put an automatic charger on when the bikes sat.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 00:04 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

8AH?
Are you sure? that sounds more like a 125 scooter battery to me
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 08:06 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
8AH?
Are you sure? that sounds more like a 125 scooter battery to me

Yep, it's probably on the back foot to begin with. It's a YTX9-BS. However I have a new theory that the charger isn't giving it a full 100%. It also lacks temperature compensation and I'm charging in a cold garage (using a back-up power supply.)
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MCN
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PostPosted: 09:23 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
WD Forte wrote:
8AH?
Are you sure? that sounds more like a 125 scooter battery to me

Yep, it's probably on the back foot to begin with. It's a YTX9-BS. However I have a new theory that the charger isn't giving it a full 100%. It also lacks temperature compensation and I'm charging in a cold garage (using a back-up power supply.)


https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/233276647462
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 12:48 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
8AH?
Are you sure? that sounds more like a 125 scooter battery to me


My 750 has the same capacity battery..... Pretty sure my GXSR-1000 did too.

MCN wrote:


Wind turbine would be more useful lately Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

xX-Alex-Xx wrote:


MCN wrote:


Wind turbine would be more useful lately Laughing


Where I live in the UK there is not sufficient wind to make a wind turbine economical at current cost per KWH

https://www.renew-reuse-recycle.com/noabl.pl?go=Go&postcode=&osx=76+&osy=66&country=gb
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:38 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:


MCN wrote:


Wind turbine would be more useful lately Laughing


Where I live in the UK there is not sufficient wind to make a wind turbine economical at current cost per KWH

https://www.renew-reuse-recycle.com/noabl.pl?go=Go&postcode=&osx=76+&osy=66&country=gb

Nationally wind power looks pretty good, whereas solar is poor. Take a look at the two "yearly" charts at the bottom centre of gridwatch and also note the different scales on the axes.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:44 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Me! wrote:
However I have a new theory that the charger isn't giving it a full 100%. It also lacks temperature compensation and I'm charging in a cold garage (using a back-up power supply.)

Got home and checked the instructions for my Oximiser 900 thinking I might have only been allowing it to fast-charge to 85% and then unplugging it before a slower top-up phase could complete, but I think not.
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 23:53 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the bikes charging system is ok and no serious battery drain then put your hands in your pocket for a yuasa ytz12s 12v 11ah
Neutral
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MCN
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PostPosted: 23:57 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Nationally wind power looks pretty good, whereas solar is poor. Take a look at the two "yearly" charts at the bottom centre of gridwatch and also note the different scales on the axes.


I was referring to a private wind turbine.
They are ultra sensitive to buildings, trees, landscape and of course prevailing/seasonal winds.
You need to run an Annenometer at your site for a long time for as near 'real life' readings. Postcode average is a loose guide.
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xX-Alex-Xx
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PostPosted: 14:22 - 18 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
xX-Alex-Xx wrote:


MCN wrote:


Wind turbine would be more useful lately Laughing


Where I live in the UK there is not sufficient wind to make a wind turbine economical at current cost per KWH

https://www.renew-reuse-recycle.com/noabl.pl?go=Go&postcode=&osx=76+&osy=66&country=gb


Was referring more to the storms Laughing
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:24 - 18 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
If the bikes charging system is ok and no serious battery drain then put your hands in your pocket for a yuasa ytz12s 12v 11ah
Neutral

That's brilliant Jaffa, I think you might have cracked it. I'll give it a try, thanks. Funny though, I'd previously looked for a larger capacity battery that would fit and couldn't find one. The YTZ12S is 11.6Ah so it should last longer between use/top-ups, and it has the same dimensions bar 5mm more height. I think it'll fit.
This thread was classic BCF though,
Quote:
Recommend me a....

Quote:
You don't want one of those....

Laughing
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MCN
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PostPosted: 08:12 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Letting a lead acid battery go low for extended intervals before charging encourages sulphation of the electrode oxide.
There are chargers with circuitry to help manage this.
That sort of charger can recover most neglected batteries but poor battery charge management generally scars the performance and reduces the full life potential performance.
If everything on the engine is in good order then a poor battery might not present but first time the engine has a problem (very cold day) then a compromised battery will fail.
Possibly irricoverably then too if the coatings disintegrate from the shock of deep high load discharging during continued cranking.

All batteries should be monitored/maintained if left for a few weeks at a time off charge.
Proper management can save hassle and ££ in the long term.
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Qyburn
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 16:53 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

MCN wrote:
I was referring to a private wind turbine.
They are ultra sensitive to buildings, trees, landscape and of course prevailing/seasonal winds.
You need to run an Anemometer at your site for a long time for as near 'real life' readings. Postcode average is a loose guide.

Also need neighbours not too close or not too fussy about noise. One of the 6kW that we looked at recommended at least 125m to nearest resident.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 21:41 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

When I needed a new battery to replace to old one in the KTM enduro I had a good look at what else was available instead of the usual AGM or lead-acid type.As I had heard good things about the lithium-ion items I had a look on the Tayna website and they seemed to be the way to go.It is much lighter but not really that noticeable when on the go as the bike is already light.The power of the battery is not that much different to the previous ones,as is the price.

The good thing about this newer battery is the length of time that I have not been using the bike (for various reasons).The test button shows that even after quite a layoff where the bike has been SORNed,the battery has stayed at full power.

https://www.tayna.co.uk/motorcycle-batteries/
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 21 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
yuasa ytz12s 12v 11ah Neutral

Got one, and it fits perfectly in the battery box under the seat, in fact the 5mm extra height takes up the slack left by the old, compressed grommets under the securing bracket. The old YTX9BS rattled a little.

However the new battery cost almost twice as much. I reckon the extra capacity can only come from larger lead plates and the new battery is 2lbs heavier, so a couple of quid's more lead. Thinking

Never mind, I hope this change puts the Kawasaki into the same long stand-by period as the Yamaha, which I've been able to maintain. I'll be back to commuting soon anyway, so neither bike will rest for long. Nov-Feb 2020-2021 will be the test, when I only use the bikes on occasional weekends. If this battery fails a lithium iron phosphate battery will be next, and as I understand it, won't blow my balls off or torch the bike like older Li-ion batteries might have.
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