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Historical vehicle status

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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 15 Feb 2020    Post subject: Historical vehicle status Reply with quote

Having seen some old bikes say 1980 1981 ish being sold with
"Soon be VED/Tax and MOT free" I checked the status of mine
which was first registered March 1978.

Looking on the gubment web site it says 'vehicles registered or built'
before Jan 1978 can apply for HVS .

I'm not concerned about avoiding the MOT or the £69 Tax that much
even though there's a good chance mine was 'built' prior to this
just wondering if I understand it correctly
is Jan 1978 a fixed date or a rolling one?
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 20:43 - 15 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a rolling 40-year rule.

They just don't update their website on time, which is why some confusion can result.

The guidance on the V112(?) form itself says that bikes either manufactured or first registered more than 40 years ago are eligible.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 21:47 - 15 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's rolling. My CX is just about to hit the threshold (1980).
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 21:58 - 15 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks
I spose I may as well apply to dodge the tax then
as its due the end of the month
69 quids 69 quid after all
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 08:16 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm kinda annoyed with myself with this one - I'd thought years ago (talking a few decades..) they were going to get rid of the historic class by stopping more vehicles joining?
With of me not knowing fully, I got rid of an old Puch Maxi. I could have kept it and dropped a 160 pit bike engine in Sad
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 12:23 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does this mean if I own a non-running old nail (1979) with a proper V5 in my name, it's now worth something?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:59 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
Does this mean if I own a non-running old nail (1979) with a proper V5 in my name, it's now worth something?


Maybe... historic status might mean "self-cert MoT" (you don't take it to a garage but it still has to be roadworthy!) and no tax but the money saved there gets blown on parts that can be harder to get hold of due to the age.

Once we start moving onto '80s bikes I think ppl may take a bit more interest - think solid, reliable Jap bikes Smile
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 15:04 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
I'd thought years ago (talking a few decades..) they were going to get rid of the historic class by stopping more vehicles joining?


I believe your instincts about what they wanted to do were correct. However, from what I can gather, there was an attempt to regularise a "Historic Vehicle Status" across the EU countries, resulting from pressure from classic car groups, but individual countries were allowed to stipulate their own criteria for eligibility. France, for example, has a 25-year rule for bikes. I don't want to say too much (because, as it seems with the new licence and CBT rules, every observation the public makes is just a loophole which needs to be closed), but I have read the criteria carefully. I think if you look at it cynically it makes sense and you can see where it's going. A lobby group consisting of a few individuals with substantial means pressures/forces/influences a loophole at an EU level to keep their private collections (things like Porsche 959s) on the road. A political party with less wealthy friends who have E-types sees a way to curry favour and bequeath a boon, while simply applying a new EU-wide regularisation. But nobody particularly wants/wanted the bloke with a Ford Capri he put together in his garage taking a leisure trip to Chipping on a Sunday. That's how I read the way the wind is blowing.
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wr6133
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PostPosted: 16:12 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
no tax but the money saved there gets blown on parts that can be harder to get hold of due to the age.


I was meaning more if the old, old type registration plate having a proper v5 with it gave it any value.

I'll turn it in to a garden table before I spend money on parts.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 18:07 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
I'm kinda annoyed with myself with this one - I'd thought years ago (talking a few decades..) they were going to get rid of the historic class by stopping more vehicles joining?
With of me not knowing fully, I got rid of an old Puch Maxi. I could have kept it and dropped a 160 pit bike engine in Sad


The Taffies sent an email out to everyone to ask how to fuck up things for Sister Sledge a few years ago.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:22 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The vague rules around historic vehicles preclude "substantial changes" otherwise you could drop a FI engine into a '70s frame...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria

tl;dr don't fuck up the frame, engine, suspension or handling too much Smile
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:54 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
The vague rules around historic vehicles preclude "substantial changes" otherwise you could drop a FI engine into a '70s frame...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria

tl;dr don't fuck up the frame, engine, suspension or handling too much Smile


This reminds me of the twats who chop the rear frame off a CX to build cafe 'racers'
Apart from ruining it by fucking up it's structural integrity with a criminally bodged mono shock no true engineer would put his name to,
The CX is, was and never will be any kind of racer.
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kgm
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PostPosted: 21:52 - 16 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
The vague rules around historic vehicles preclude "substantial changes" otherwise you could drop a FI engine into a '70s frame...

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria/historic-classic-vehicles-mot-exemption-criteria

tl;dr don't fuck up the frame, engine, suspension or handling too much Smile


This reminds me of the twats who chop the rear frame off a CX to build cafe 'racers'
Apart from ruining it by fucking up it's structural integrity with a criminally bodged mono shock no true engineer would put his name to,
The CX is, was and never will be any kind of racer.


Wholeheartedly agree.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

CX is a super-kewl engine if you're into a little sideways shaft action* and German sausage ain't your thing** Ofc you may be into S&M*** and grab a Ural Very Happy

*as the actress said to the bishop
**well that's what she said
***more "M" unless you have a sidecar and a passenger you particularly despise

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wr6133
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PostPosted: 15:02 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
CX is a super-kewl engine if you're into a little sideways shaft action* and German sausage ain't your thing


Italian Sausage it's like a Guzzi (sideways V-Twin), not a Boxer twin.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:29 - 17 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

wr6133 wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
CX is a super-kewl engine if you're into a little sideways shaft action* and German sausage ain't your thing


Italian Sausage it's like a Guzzi (sideways V-Twin), not a Boxer twin.


I stand corrected!
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blurredman
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PostPosted: 09:27 - 18 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an interesting topic and one I have looked into as I will have two vehicles (a car and a bike) technically eligible this year, and my Honda CX eligible in 2022. And, another vehicle every other year after that.

I would save £265 on the car plus the MOT cost- Which will likely be inputted back into fuel Cool
I barely use my Suzuki TS anyway- probably only put 200 miles a year on it, if that- but is always insured/tax/moted etc.

Anyway.
Yes, I will be going down to the post office with my forms come April/May for my Buick and my Suzuki as they were built in 1979.

Remember, Although the vehicle must be built <jan, the law doesn't come into effect for that roll-over date until the financial year.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 52k.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 18 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Blurredman wrote:
Remember, Although the vehicle must be built <jan, the law doesn't come into effect for that roll-over date until the financial year.


Yes, this is correct.

Finance Act 2016 wrote:

VED: extension of old vehicles exemption from 1 April 2017

(1)Paragraph 1A of Schedule 2 to VERA 1994 (exemption for old vehicles) is amended as follows.

(2)In sub-paragraph (1) for the words from “if” to the end substitute “ during the period of 12 months beginning with 1 April in any year if it was constructed more than 40 years before 1 January in that year. ”

(3)After that sub-paragraph insert—

“(1A)But nothing in sub-paragraph (1) has the effect that a nil licence is required to be in force in respect of a vehicle while a vehicle licence is in force in respect of it.”

(4)The amendments made by this section come into force on 1 April 2017.
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Sister Sledge
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PostPosted: 20:04 - 18 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've a question.
Seeing as an MOT is no longer required, do some insurers insist on one anyway? Perhaps just to satisfy themselves that it is indeed roadworthy??
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:46 - 18 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
I've a question.
Seeing as an MOT is no longer required, do some insurers insist on one anyway? Perhaps just to satisfy themselves that it is indeed roadworthy??


Possible... when I sold my Superlight the buyer's insurer insisted it got an MoT even thought it was less than 3 years old (Cat N salvage bike.)

Never got asked for an MoT for my DT175 so YMMV Smile
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blurredman
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PostPosted: 10:35 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sister Sledge wrote:
I've a question.
Seeing as an MOT is no longer required, do some insurers insist on one anyway? Perhaps just to satisfy themselves that it is indeed roadworthy??


It is a good question. And one I have also thought of too- however, it has not come up with my brother- who has himself gone through this process about 2 years ago - his insurance has yet to cause an issue.
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CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 40k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 52k.
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A100man
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Note also Historic vehicles are allowed in the ULEZ in London...

Can't wait to drag my GT250 - 2 smoke around there soon and cut-up some Teslas.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:19 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

A100man wrote:
Note also Historic vehicles are allowed in the ULEZ in London...

Can't wait to drag my GT250 - 2 smoke around there soon and cut-up some Teslas.


Really? I did the number plate check for my DT175 and it said I had to pay. Having said that it seems to take TfL ~3months to catch up with the DVLA database.

<edit>

TfL Website wrote:
Historic vehicles
You can apply to stop paying vehicle tax if your vehicle was built more than 40 years ago. This date moves forward on a 40-year rolling system. Assuming the rules stay the same, when the ULEZ launches in April 2019, vehicles built before 1979 will be eligible to apply for historic vehicle tax class.

All vehicles that have a historic vehicle tax class will be exempt from the ULEZ. This tax class excludes any vehicle used commercially (for example, coffee vans or street food vans).

In line with the existing LEZ discount all vehicles registered before 1 January 1973 will be exempt from the ULEZ, regardless of commercial use or otherwise.

If your vehicle meets the above criteria and is registered in the UK, it is automatically exempt and you don't need to register with us. If your vehicle meets the above criteria but is registered outside the UK, you are also exempt, but will need to register with us. Details on how you can register will be available closer to the time.


I'll keep checking! Thanks for the info Thumbs Up
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:44 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lol... chatting in the office and there was doubt about whether one could "make do" with a '70s bike to skip the ULEZ...

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/CBX_1000_arg.jpg

Checkmate, vintage bike haters Very Happy
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 16:09 - 19 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Right
So I get to the PO and wait for "Cashier number Three please"
plop down the documents and demand my rights.
Computer says no
WTF?
Bike first registered March 1979
+40 years is feb 2019
Told I cant apply until March 2020
Whut? thas 41 years innit?
Anyroadup
When the tax runs out at the end of this month I'll SORN it
and go back to demand my taxual freedom then.

Edit
Ahh! I see, MORE than 40 years
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The last post was made 6 years, 132 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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