Registering and insuring custom bike

[Clever username]

If I want to make a bike from 2 or more old bikes what happens with registration and insurance? Is it different If I use write offs or scrap parts?

[stinkwheel]

Same make and model or different make and model?

If it's the same make and model, you put it all together then inform the DVLA that you have changed the engine on the V5c. The registration number goes with the frame. You will need supporting documents in either the form of a receipt for he engine detailing the engine number or a letter from a motorcycle garage stating that engine number is currently fitted to the bike.

If it's bits of two different bikes... Well, depends. Depends on how much of the original bike you use (the one that the frame is from). You need the original, unmodified frame and at least two of the following to retain the original registration: forks, wheels, engine or gear box.

If you change more than this, you'll need to put it through an MSVA test and will be issued a Q-plate if it passes. If you modify the frame, you need an MSVA anyway.

Retain enough parts of the original and you just notify a change of engine number (and or capacity) as before.

Then you'll need to insure it. If it's made from bits from the same model and is standard, insure as normal. If it's non-strandard, you need to declare the modifications. If it's bits of two different models or you have a lot of modifications, you'll need a specialist policy, these can be £££ or sometimes surprisingly cheap..
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Bhud]

Purely hypothetically, if someone had put in a different engine of the same make and cc as the original, then who's to say it wasn't the original engine in the first place, if the engine number had been scrubbed off for some unknown reason by some unknown owner, unbeknownst to the present owner?

[MCN]

[Bhud]

All good points, but one would wonder at anyone's motivation for doing all those checks.

Just as a fictional example, one Johnny Goodytwoshoes has an old XJ600. The early ones didn't have an oil cooler. He isn't mechanically inept. Far worse than that. He's a mechanical buffoon! He couldn't even fix a dripping water faucet. He goes into the house one summer's day, forgetting to turn off the ignition. His bike keeps idling nicely, quietly, and he's such an upstanding and legal citizen, he still has the stock exhaust, so nobody notices. His bike overheats, his cylinder head warps.

A neighbour rings his bell to tell him about the bike, and he answers. He quickly turns off the bike. The neighbour is a competent engineer, well familiar with bikes! He kindly pulls out some tools, removes the head, discovers the problem. He also notices the valve stems are mushroomed, all because of neglect of maintenance. This jolly fellow tells Johnny to search Ebay for certain parts to repair the bike. The parts amount to about £120 in total. The stranger thinks this is a lot, and tells Johnny to buy a replacement engine instead, as this costs a mere £90. The engine arrives at Johnny's door, and Johnny informs his neighbour and asks him what to do. The neighbour fits the engine into Johnny's bike, and all is well!

Couple of minor details: 1) the new engine had been repainted, and the engine number had been lost in the repainting. 2) The new engine has an oil cooler (not that Johnny would ever notice - him and engines don't mix) but the old one does not.

The nice neighbour fits the engine, makes sure it's working then gets back on with his own life, forgetting to tell Johnny that the engine, virtually identical to the old one, is from a slightly later version of the same bike.

There is no question of anything having been stolen, ever. Johnny has an Ebay and Paypal receipt for the replacement engine. Literally, all he did was log into Paypal, trusting his neighbour's advice that it was the right engine. He didn't see the engine being fitted, and didn't even ask if the whole engine or just some parts were to be replaced.

[Easy-X]

Not that I'm saying you'd try and dodge any rules but try and follow the spirit of the thing...

My old DT175 came in 100cc and 125cc flavours so if I were to swap in the spare bottom-end I have from the DT125 model (to get a starter and 12V system) then the essence of the bike is unchanged: same frame, wheels, suspension, barrel etc. it's just the engine number happens to be on the bottom case. TBH, not a detail worth mentioning to anyone but a collector. If I were to lob in an entire DT125 engine I'd just call it a DT125 from then on, for insurance, DLVA, etc.

Lobbing in an engine from say a Suzuki TS250 of the same era would mean at least fashioning some engine mounts which puts the whole structure of the bike into question (along with the fact the frame was originally designed for at most a 175cc engine.) Just for my own peace of mind I'd want a third-party to confirm the bike is safe so off it would go to do an MSVA.
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Riejufixing]

[stinkwheel]

[Clever username]

Cheers for the answers thus far guys.

Say I brought 3 random bikes for £50 they were all write offs/didn't start/scrap or whatever and put the working parts together would I have to register it again? Would it have to be Q reg? Would it be a piece of shit to insure?

[Bhud]

[Easy-X]

[stinkwheel]

To keep it simple, aim to have either a frame with the original engine (gearbox is part of the engine on most bikes) OR a frame with original forks and wheels.

Then you can keep the original registration. The rest you can chop and change according to your whims/abilities.

Remember motorbike are not lego. Even seemingly simple swaps can be tricky and may require custom fabrication, alteration and an understanding of how things work.

Even my comparatively simple engine swap (GPZ into KLE500) which are both derived from the same engine design and as such bolt straight in was not straightforwards. The ignition advance curve is different so i had to wire in the IC igniter of the donor engine. The engine itself had a different number of timing pickups so I had to do a fair bit of head-scratching to get it hooked in. This also made the rev counter under-read by 50%. THEN I had to get it to run because the airbox design is radically different and the lack of pressure-waves means it wouldn't run properly with the standard carbs off either bike.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Teflon-Mike]

You keep using the term "Write off"... what do you mean?
If a bike is 'a write off', generically that means that an insurance company has decided that it is cheaper to 'write off' the market value of the machine, and give you the money to go buy another, than it is to pay a garage to fix damage to wot-chu-got.
That throws up the Cat scheme, where if first you declare dasmage to the insurance THEY then have to decide weather to write-off the loss, and if they do, declare to the DVLA why. If its cosmetic damage that's expensive but bot dangerouse and could be fixed, then I think they award a Cat C or Cat D flag to the log book. If its more seriouse and they deide that the vehicle could not be safely repaired then it gets a Cat A or Cat B flag. If subject top claim you should send the V5 to ther insurance company, and if they Cat it, then they should return the V5 to DVLA. Depending on the flag, if catted, if Cat A or ?B then the registration is deleted, and the vehicle CANNOT be returned to the road on that registration. If Cat C or D, then it 'may' be returned to the road on that registration, but only after inspection, either an MOT or an SVA test.
So do you have the V5 for anything?
And, has that V5 been ibvalidated by a Catting that's declared the V6 'lost'?
Nut the long and the short is trhat "Write off" means little to bugger all, and certainly not in regs or law. A Cat declaration means a lot more... maybe, but there too so oft over-used many supposedly catted vehicles never have been catted by an insurance co to DVLA, and its more modern just jargon for write-off/.....
SVA rules appl;y if you radically alter any bike from standard, so read the regs. Some stuff you can get away with on the original registration, like making a chopper by using solid struts in place of back shocks, other stuff you cant, like shoving a GSXR engine in a mini-moto...
Like-for-Like substitutions like dropping a GPz engine into a KLE or a CB400N motor into a CB250 chassis, r using car analogy, putting a 16oo cross-slo engine where a 950 used to live... technically you are supposed to inform DVLA of the 'change', same as if you re-paint a red bike purple... and over the years many haven't and plod and DVLA have tended not to be too bothered, though these day the pen pushers do like to get some form of letter headed note with the change, preferably from a 3rd party garage they can check up on, to explain what's been done and why... and probably try tell you that the chanmge begs an
SVA test and fee.... but that'#s another matter...
Bottonm line, you AN use the original registration for an awful lot opf mods, declared or otherwise, before you HAVE to have SVA, let alone re-registratiojn on a bew number plate.. but devil is in the detail of them regs.,.. go read!
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My Webby'Tef's-tQ, loads of stuff about my bikes, my Land-Rovers, and the stuff I do with them!
Current Bikes:'Honda VF1000F' ;'CB750F2N' ;'CB125TD ( 6 3 of em!)'; 'Montesa Cota 248'. Learner FAQ's:= 'U want to Ride a Motorbike! Where Do U start?'

[Riejufixing]

[Bhud]

[stinkwheel]

Dear DVLA.

I just fitted a 600cc, low emission engine in my Dodge charger. Engine number 0N01D1DNT. Please amend your records accordingly. I enclose my cheque for a fiver annual road tax.

Sincerely,
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Bhud]

That's a good point, but for the same taxation class, e.g. changing your KLE500 engine to a GPZ500 one, you don't stand to gain any advantage by misrepresenting the engine change.

The equivalent to the Dodge engine change would be misrepresenting that you changed your KLE500 engine to a YBR125 engine, with a view to claiming you were entitled to a more favourable taxation class as a result.

As it was, you were made to get your engine independently certified before the DVLA would change their information, even though you stood to gain nothing by either telling them of the engine change, or omitting to tell them of the engine change. The applicable tax rate was the same before and after your engine change.

[Easy-X]

That's an interesting point and it doesn't even need to be a full engine swap...

Surely anything like full exhaust system, remap, carb downgrade, etc. is something that could potentially be slipped by number-plate/VIN based categorisation systems such as the ULEZ.

Good job bikers are so honest
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter