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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 23:08 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: ebikes: I'm surprised it took this long :( Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51647068

BBC News wrote:
Dalston fatal e-bike crash rider 'going too fast'


Then again it's one of those "guns don't kill people, rappers people do..." The ebike will be blamed but just as in other cycling incidents it's the lack of care while riding. Actually, that's far too kind. Psychopathic disregard for others safety.

Whether the crossing light is green or red is neither here nor there. Pedestrians have priority and crossings must always be approached with caution. And it's London, numpties darting when the green man long since flashed is de rigueur.

So, doing >25mph is implied from the story. Might only need a 500W motor for that but I suspect 1kW more likely. Glad I've got out of that game - the "honeymoon period" has gone - but I'll not be upset that the path eventually led to a legal 2-wheeled vehicle.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:52 - 26 Feb 2020    Post subject: Re: ebikes: I'm surprised it took this long :( Reply with quote

BBC News wrote:
Dalston fatal e-bike crash rider 'going too fast'

I remember that. So Thomas Hanlon is the bastard that did a hit 'n' run.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 00:30 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

In other news. I can easily exceed 15.5mph for a sustained period on the flat on my single speed pub bike which has no electric motor at all.

So I'd move that the motive power the idiot in question is of little relevance. He could have been going similarly fast under his own steam.

EDIT: Also, technically isn't this in the wrong section? The court has ruled the guy was riding a motorcycle, not a bicycle. Wink
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 09:41 - 27 Feb 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

If the guy had been legally riding a normal moped at 25mph and she ran in front of him without looking would the end result have been any different?

He's still a twat though for riding illegally.
Don't even get me started on those cnts that ride those electric scooters ( the flat board you stand on with handle bars, not a moped) on the pavement at 20mph.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:55 - 02 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-51707616

Can't say justice was done in this event, not completely.

Fair enough for Not Guilty on death by careless driving as she did step out when the lights were green. However, not guilty of driving without a licence or insurance?! Can't see how either of those two are up for debate.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 12:44 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

He'd already pleaded guilty to the licence stuff, it was only not guilty for the causing death stuff.
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BTTD
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PostPosted: 14:38 - 03 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

So justice is done, case closed.
He should have just bought a legal moped, taken a CBT and bought some insurance. Still would have killed the woman though.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 15:48 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The French Government has this week taken steps to legislate against e-Bike tuning beyond legal limits, or those set by the manufacturer.

The ruling now enforces that individuals, retailers or manufacturers themselves may not enhance the power of an e-Bike beyond a speed of 25kmh for regular models, or 45kmh for speed pedelecs, the latter of which require licensing, insurance and a helmet with suitable standard of protection for the vehicle.

The law now coming into force legislates that, if found to have bumped an electric bike’s capability the accused will be subject to a fine of up to €30,000, or potentially a year in jail.

The e-Bike tuning law comes on the back of a high profile case in the UK where the rider of a tuned electric bike had illegally modified the motor to enable a speed of up to 30mph.

Thomas Hanlon collided with Sakine Cihan, who later succumbed to injuries sustained in hospital. In a verdict that surprised many, the court eventually cleared Hanlon, having deemed him to not be at fault for the crash itself, deeming that whether the bike was illegal or not was not relevant to the circumstances of the crash.

European bicycle trade organisation CONEBI, in tandem with AMBE of Spain, has this week issued a detailed statement reminding those under its wing of their responsibilities to keep e-Bikes within legal limits.

“If the assisted pedaling bicycle is manipulated, by modifying the power delivery or maximum operating speed of the electric auxiliary motor, or by means of kits altering these limits (allowing speed of assistance is increased above 25km / h), the bicycle becomes immediate on a motor vehicle according to Regulation (EU) 168/2013,” reads the statement. “Once manipulated, the e-Bike becomes a motor vehicle. Completely different requirements will fall on it.”

Among changes that many users of such chipped bikes may not realise are invalidation of personal insurances, loss of manufacturer’s warranty, a potential withdrawal of a driving licence, as well as other criminal offences.

In the case of retail stores the consequences again are many fold and include ties to offences made once the modified e-Bike has left the store.

These include inciting and participating in a crime once the e-Bike is used on a public space, loss of insurance coverage for your business, as well as likely invalidation of any contracts held with brands carried and later tuned.

Manufacturers such as Bosch have taken a pro-active approach to combating tuning, with the electronics giant building in to its software systems to detect modification and immobilise the vehicle.

On the flip side of the argument, LEVA-EU has pressed the case that “brute force” legislation to outlaw such vehicles skirts the reason many are opting to use them and has in fact called for a softening of laws.

Shocked

https://cyclingindustry.news/french-government-lead-on-e-bike-tuning-with-threat-of-e30000-fine/
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 16:00 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ste wrote:
The French Government has this week taken steps to legislate against e-Bike tuning beyond legal limits, or those set by the manufacturer (snip)


I can see why. There's a difference between bicycles and motorbikes. An electric bicycle up to 15 1/2MPH isn't that different to a bicycle. Ay some point it's got to become an electric motorbike. The french government seem to have just defined that point.

The big thing in the article, that seems to have gone unremarked is "Among changes that many users of such chipped bikes may not realise are invalidation of personal insurances"
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:04 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Ste wrote:
The French Government has this week taken steps to legislate against e-Bike tuning beyond legal limits, or those set by the manufacturer (snip)


I can see why. There's a difference between bicycles and motorbikes. An electric bicycle up to 15 1/2MPH isn't that different to a bicycle. Ay some point it's got to become an electric motorbike. The french government seem to have just defined that point.

The big thing in the article, that seems to have gone unremarked is "Among changes that many users of such chipped bikes may not realise are invalidation of personal insurances"


French law is different from UK law and personal insurance is not 3rd party insurance.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
French law is different from UK law and personal insurance is not 3rd party insurance.

Gosh, french law different Exclamation Anyway, the issue is in france, not in the UK, and it's their personal insurance that's invalidated (I doubt the people the french authorities are aiming at have motor insurance for their (tuned) electric bicycles).
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:30 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personal insurances could be referring to any one of various different types of insurance. Confused
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bhinso
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PostPosted: 17:43 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

On the original post, if he had nothing to hide, why did he leave the scene with her lying there? "The court was told Mr Hanlon left the scene despite a passer-by trying to stop him."

It continues to amaze me that there's not more accidents/deaths involving mobility scooters.
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Ste
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PostPosted: 17:49 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

The correct excuse for that is you were in shock and not thinking clearly so that's why you didn't stop but instead you reported it to the police / handed yourself in as soon as you realised what had happened.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:18 - 11 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

"Chipped" "Tuned" "Modified" Thinking

The article was written but someone who knows very little about eBikes and is just mouthing whatever Bosch tell them to.

While you could over-volt a standard 250W motor to get a bit more out of it (shortening the lifespan of the motor of course) but you'd probably have to swap out the controller to handle more power and then... well, why bother? Take the stoppers off the 15.5mph limit? Might manage 17, maybe 18 instead.
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 14 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have an electric bike which 'ROLLED' down a hill with no power being applied at over 40 mph......so should I have used the brakes to maintain 17mph?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 02:32 - 15 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

GettinBetter wrote:
I have an electric bike which 'ROLLED' down a hill with no power being applied at over 40 mph......so should I have used the brakes to maintain 17mph?


This is where it's all a bit fucked up. There's no issue with ebikes going over 15.5mph it's just you have to do that speed unassisted by the motor so 40mph is no problem.

However, having built one that went >30mph just on throttle twist I can 100% say the feckers are nuts and shouldn't be in the hands of the unskilled Shocked
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GettinBetter
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PostPosted: 22:23 - 19 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
....However, having built one that went >30mph just on throttle twist I can 100% say the feckers are nuts and shouldn't be in the hands of the unskilled Shocked


Having done the same, I totally agree with that ^^ comment. Even the muppets with legal ones still drive too fast past pedestrians on the seafront. They have no regard for how fast a pedestrian can, without warning change direction, especially the kids.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 19 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my younger day I would ride a 12-speed racer full-tilt everywhere with the knowledge that I was putting myself at risk, but as a pedestrian you have to have an awareness when crossing a road. It's surprising these days how many people will just stride out with no regard. Maybe this fellow had somehow by-passed a "limiter" on his machine, but the pedestrian should have been wary of vehicles capable of similar speeds, particularly since she went against a red-man signal.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 03:24 - 20 Mar 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote

Maybe it's something subconscious: push-bikes and eBikes look the same to the ped reptile brain as in "in the event of a crash the cyclist will probably come off worse" sort of stupidity.

A loud exhaust and a bad reputation does have some advantages - peds scatter to the sound of an Akrapovič as if it signals the arrival of the 5th horseman of the apocalypse on his chrome steed Laughing
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