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Daelim Besbi Scooter won't start. Is good fuel the cause?

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cyian
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Joined: 28 Dec 2020
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 28 Dec 2020    Post subject: Daelim Besbi Scooter won't start. Is good fuel the cause? Reply with quote
Hi all,

I've got a 2011 Daelim Besbi (125cc) Scotter which has had very little use (~3500km on the clock).

It only gets driven once every few weeks.

Some background:

    - She always needs a few attempts to get started (except when driven on consecutive days)

    - I don't think the previous owner looked after her too well

    - Unknown when last service/oil change was...


Current situation:
    - I used premium fuel (98 Octane) for the first time

    - Two weeks without driving, now she won't start (ignition sounds, but engine doesn't "catch")


I have tried:

    - Holding down the ignition key for ages

    - Kick starting

    - Checking the dipstick (seems to be oil)

    - Replaced spark plug


I plan to sell her ASAP so I'm not so keen to spend lots of money. It is a very inexpensive scooter anywaay

I have done some moderate car mechanics before, so I'm confident to poke around

Any chance it is because I used high-octane fuel? Worth Siphoning out/replacing?

What are the best first steps to look out for here?

Last edited by cyian on 06:59 - 29 Dec 2020; edited 1 time in total
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Riejufixing
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Joined: 24 Jun 2018
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PostPosted: 22:11 - 28 Dec 2020    Post subject: Re: Daelim Besbi Scooter won't start. Is good fuel the cause Reply with quote
cyian wrote:
Any chance it is because I used high-octane fuel? Worth Siphoning out/replacing?

What are the best first steps to look out for here?

1) Doubt it very much. Diesel, yes, high-octane fuel, no.

2) Sparking-plug or associated?
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cyian
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PostPosted: 22:51 - 28 Dec 2020    Post subject: Re: Daelim Besbi Scooter won't start. Is good fuel the cause Reply with quote
Riejufixing wrote:

2) Sparking-plug or associated?


It a broken spark plug likely to cause unreliable starting? And mean the kick start doesn't work?
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 23:12 - 28 Dec 2020    Post subject: Re: Daelim Besbi Scooter won't start. Is good fuel the cause Reply with quote
cyian wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:

2) Sparking-plug or associated?

It a broken spark plug likely to cause unreliable starting? And mean the kick start doesn't work?

It's unlikely to be "broken", or you would see the damage. However., they do break down, electrically speaking, and are an easy and cheap thing to consider changing.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 00:17 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Quote:
Is good fuel the cause?

Yeah, you need to put some bad fuel in it. Wink

Were you trying to solve an existing problem by using premium grade for the first time?

How far did you ride after refuelling?
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cyian
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PostPosted: 02:17 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Yeah, you need to put some bad fuel in it. Wink

Were you trying to solve an existing problem by using premium grade for the first time?

How far did you ride after refuelling?


Ha, I can't tell- is your tone is sarcastic, or are you suspecting is is good fuel that's caused this?

Yes, I thought better fuel may help run more smoothly. After refuelling, I only rode less than 1km...
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cyian
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PostPosted: 06:55 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
I’ve now replaced the spark plug, and it still wont start.

I tried the electric ignition, which is now sounding very weak. So i also tried kick starting several times.

I could be missing something super obvious here... the kickstand is down, there is fuel and it doesn't have a kill switch

What is next to try/troubleshoot?
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doggone
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PostPosted: 07:43 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
If the starter motor is struggling to turn it probably the battery is on its way out.
See if it helps to charge it for 2 or 3 hours or consider jump leads from another vehicle.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 11:46 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyian wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Yeah, you need to put some bad fuel in it. Wink

Were you trying to solve an existing problem by using premium grade for the first time?

How far did you ride after refuelling?


Ha, I can't tell- is your tone is sarcastic, or are you suspecting is is good fuel that's caused this?


"Sarcastic" sounds unkind. I was... teasing.

cyian wrote:
Yes, I thought better fuel may help run more smoothly.

So were you having problems with the bike before? Or were you just trying premium out of curiosity?

cyian wrote:
After refuelling, I only rode less than 1km...

OK, if you'd said 5km it would be proof the fuel was fine. Less than 1km... not sure.

I think I'd check it wasn't diesel in the tank but maybe drain and refill anyway since you're currently focussed on it being related to the new fuel. That will probably show the fuel was good, the bike still won't run so you can turn your attention to other possible causes. Principal of elimination.

When you "held down the ignition key for ages" and the engine was turning but not firing, could you smell unburnt petrol?
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cyian
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:


I think I'd check it wasn't diesel in the tank but maybe drain and refill anyway since you're currently focussed on it being related to the new fuel. That will probably show the fuel was good, the bike still won't run so you can turn your attention to other possible causes. Principal of elimination.

When you "held down the ignition key for ages" and the engine was turning but not firing, could you smell unburnt petrol?


Yeh definitely wasn't diesel. I think it will be messy/difficult to get the fuel out (I've tried already) so I think I'd rather eliminate other things first.


I "held down the ignition key" the engine "turn" sounded , but never "caught" so to speak. No, I could not smell unburnt petrol. Any ideas of what to do next?

I"m trying to find some jumper cables to see if the battery is related
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:57 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
cyian wrote:
I’ve now replaced the spark plug, and it still wont start.

I tried the electric ignition, which is now sounding very weak. So i also tried kick starting several times.

I could be missing something super obvious here... the kickstand is down, there is fuel and it doesn't have a kill switch

What is next to try/troubleshoot?

Have you actually seen a spark at the sparking-plug?

But charge the battery and/or try jump leads from another vehicle, as do gone said.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 12:02 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
It's a waste of money using premium in something that cannot use it as it is intended. Premium fuels are higher octane so are less prone to knocking and so you need an enginbe management system that can detect knocking and adjust the advance/retard accordingly. A crappy moped won't have that.

Anyway, most issues are electrical and not fueling. Have you checked if you actually have a spark?
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 12:46 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
It's a waste of money using premium in something that cannot use it as it is intended. Premium fuels are higher octane so are less prone to knocking and so you need an enginbe management system that can detect knocking and adjust the advance/retard accordingly. A crappy moped won't have that.

Anyway, most issues are electrical and not fueling. Have you checked if you actually have a spark?


Just to expand on that it's usually the higher the compression the more likely a manufacturer is to specify the need for high octane. I think where the confusion lies is north of 9:1 is seen as quite high compression for a car but actually pretty normal for a bike. e.g Porsche 911 - 10:1, my bike 11.5:1 Shocked Cheap 125? Probably somewhere around 8 or 9 to 1 so back to car territory.

Of course then we could get onto the topic of variable timing. Gosh! How exciting Wink
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oilyrag
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PostPosted: 19:27 - 29 Dec 2020    Post subject: Reply with quote
It has AC CDI so the battery is not part of spark. If you take the spark plug out, ground it off the engine, turn the key on, pull the brake lever and kick it over you should see a spark https://www.manualslib.com/manual/405332/Daelim-Besbi.html
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