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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:45 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
hellkat wrote:

The voiceless elderly need a shouty type, and as she fits the demographic perfectly and can make her agenda clearly understood, whilst behaving in a perfectly civilised manner, then good for her.


Sorry, but that's bollox.

We were told when the vaccine was announced that it was very simple, have a shot, have another in three weeks, problem solved.

Now the government have decided we can wait for twelve weeks between shots, despite the producers of the vaccine saying they have no data to support that decision.

Who the fuck are we meant to believe?

My money would be on the people who make the drug


The first dose confers most of the protection of the full dose. As I understand it, the aim is to get as many first doses given as possible in as short a space of time to confer protection to a large percentage of the general population in order to stop the new variant running out of control. In order to do that, they have to consider vaccine availability and the ability of the vaccinations services to provide resources to complete the task. It's a balancing act as are most logistical exercises.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:54 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

hellkat wrote:
I have to admit, though ... as I got the vaccine yesterday, I was fairly disconcerted to hear that the second one may be "21 days to 12 weeks" apart.

But as I got it from the hospital where I work, there is more likelihood that their motivation will be to inoculate all staff (in full, in a timely fashion) than driven by a need to dispense them more widely to the public.

So I expect that its a line all of the injecting-peeps have to trot out, regardless.

But what interests me about Joanie whatshername is that she's opened a crowdfunding account to cover the legal fees, I wonder who is going to pay into that. Shocked


Yep, my OH got her first dose last year and was expecting the second at the end of the month - that's been deferred to the 12 week period.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:56 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:
Shaft wrote:


Sorry, but that's bollox.

We were told when the vaccine was announced that it was very simple, have a shot, have another in three weeks, problem solved.

Now the government have decided we can wait for twelve weeks between shots, despite the producers of the vaccine saying they have no data to support that decision.

Who the fuck are we meant to believe?

My money would be on the people who make the drug


Inb4 Islander: "Conspiracy theorist!!!11!!1!1111!11!" Laughing


Calm down dear... Rolling Eyes Laughing
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Islander
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PostPosted: 10:58 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:


And if recent reports are anything to go by, you might well have to repeat the whole procedure in 12 months...


The same as the 'flu jab. Hopefully in 12 months it'll be standard procedure and no particular fuss. Smile
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:10 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Covid-19 news: UK records worst year for excess deaths since 1940

https://www.newscientist.com/article/2237475-covid-19-news-uk-records-worst-year-for-excess-deaths-since-1940/
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:23 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Shaft wrote:
We were told when the vaccine was announced that it was very simple, have a shot, have another in three weeks, problem solved.

Now the government have decided we can wait for twelve weeks between shots, despite the producers of the vaccine saying they have no data to support that decision.

Who the fuck are we meant to believe?

Not what you read in "The Beano".

https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAttachment.aspx?Attachment_id=103739
https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAttachment.aspx?Attachment_id=103741 <--
https://www.cas.mhra.gov.uk/ViewandAcknowledgment/ViewAttachment.aspx?Attachment_id=103740
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arry
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PostPosted: 11:24 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m1Lmoyw7QH4&t=5s
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 11:31 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander: establishment apologist since 2020. What happened to you, man? U used to be kewl, you've gone done a Jim Jeffries Wink I jest...

I can see the government's reasoning: flatten the curve at all costs. I'd be curious to know how effective the vaccine is with a 4 week interval vs. a 12 week interval Thinking

What is really bad: apparently ppl aren't turning up for vaccinations Shocked I suppose like anything else really but given the storage issues a handful of doses each day are being thrown away Sad If the government were smart they'd build a lottery element into the Test 'n Trace app. If there's a vaccine going begging the Mission Impossible theme starts and you have 30mins to get down there... Laughing
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 11:56 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:

What's an accusation of sensational reporting got to do with fact?

I know, I know, I won't get a sensible or coherent reply.
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arry
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PostPosted: 12:05 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:

What's an accusation of sensational reporting got to do with fact?

I know, I know, I won't get a sensible or coherent reply.


I won't bother supplying you with one then - others can take their own view.
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The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:10 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:
I'd be curious to know how effective the vaccine is with a 4 week interval vs. a 12 week interval Thinking


If you read the responses on this medical journal it seems that there is significant reductions in efficacy with greater time periods between doses. For all three vaccines approved in the UK (Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2, Moderna mRNA-1273 and Oxford-AstraZeneca AZD1222) there is a significant decrease.

The worst efficacy at optimal intervals is the Oxford-AstraZeneca and it is even worse again with the increase interval. Personally I want the Moderna vaccination, it's the most likely to resist mutations in the virus for the longest.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4978/rapid-responses[/b]
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

arry wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:

What's an accusation of sensational reporting got to do with fact?

I know, I know, I won't get a sensible or coherent reply.


I won't bother supplying you with one then - others can take their own view.



Hand Not allowed!
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 15:41 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
I'd be curious to know how effective the vaccine is with a 4 week interval vs. a 12 week interval Thinking


If you read the responses on this medical journal it seems that there is significant reductions in efficacy with greater time periods between doses. For all three vaccines approved in the UK (Pfizer-BioNTech BNT162b2, Moderna mRNA-1273 and Oxford-AstraZeneca AZD1222) there is a significant decrease.

The worst efficacy at optimal intervals is the Oxford-AstraZeneca and it is even worse again with the increase interval. Personally I want the Moderna vaccination, it's the most likely to resist mutations in the virus for the longest.

https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4978/rapid-responses[/b]

But the reference [4] in the letter from Mecci et al (Voysey M, Clemens SAC, Madhi SA, et al. Safety and efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine (AZD1222) against SARS-CoV-2: an interim analysis of four randomised controlled trials in Brazil, South Africa, and the UK. Lancet 2020 doi: 10.1016/s0140-6736(20)32661-1) actually states for the ChAdOx1 vaccine that:

"In participants who received two standard doses, efficacy against primary symptomatic COVID-19 was consistent in both the UK (603% efficacy) and Brazil (642% efficacy), indicating these results are generalisable across two diverse settings with different timings for the booster dose (with most participants in the UK receiving the booster dose more than 12 weeks after the first dose and most participants in Brazil receiving their second dose within 6 weeks of the first). Exploratory subgroup analyses included at the request of reviewers and editors also showed no significant difference in efficacy estimates when comparing those with a short time window between doses (<6 weeks) and those with longer (≥6 weeks), although further detailed exploration of the timing of doses might be warranted"

(my emphasis)
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The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman
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PostPosted: 15:52 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
But the reference [4] in the letter from Mecci et al (Voysey M, Clemens SAC, Madhi SA, et al. Safety and efficacy of the ChAdOx1 nCoV-19 vaccine (AZD1222) against SARS-CoV-2: an interim analysis of four randomised controlled trials in Brazil, South Africa, and the UK. Lancet 2020 doi: 10.1016/s0140-6736(20)32661-1) actually states for the ChAdOx1 vaccine that:

"In participants who received two standard doses, efficacy against primary symptomatic COVID-19 was consistent in both the UK (603% efficacy) and Brazil (642% efficacy), indicating these results are generalisable across two diverse settings with different timings for the booster dose (with most participants in the UK receiving the booster dose more than 12 weeks after the first dose and most participants in Brazil receiving their second dose within 6 weeks of the first). Exploratory subgroup analyses included at the request of reviewers and editors also showed no significant difference in efficacy estimates when comparing those with a short time window between doses (<6 weeks) and those with longer (≥6 weeks), although further detailed exploration of the timing of doses might be warranted"

(my emphasis)


Brb going to go cry into my literature review now Sad
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:

Brb going to go cry into my literature review now Sad

Smile I just hope they get it out as soon as possible, and that people don't abandon precautions prematurely. The daily death rate hasn't even peaked yet (expected 22nd by the look).


Last edited by Riejufixing on 16:16 - 13 Jan 2021; edited 1 time in total
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The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman
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PostPosted: 16:03 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riejufixing wrote:
Smile I just hope they get it out as soon as possible, and that people don't abandon precautions prematurely. The daily death rate hasn't even peaked yet (expected 22nd by the look).


Totally agree, I think that the roll-out in the United Kingdom will actually be OK. I think the death rate will be much worse in the United States around that time simply because of how many people there have abandoned the precautions already. You also have anti-mask marches en masse and all sorts going on.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 19:36 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Today's grim "coronavirus" tally: 1,564 people from the UK dead before their time in the UK.

Worldometers will have to re-scale the Y axis of its graph for the country's daily deaths.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Sad
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JackButler
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:


Totally agree, I think that the roll-out in the United Kingdom will actually be OK. I think the death rate will be much worse in the United States around that time simply because of how many people there have abandoned the precautions already. You also have anti-mask marches en masse and all sorts going on.


How?

This virus has a death rate, how can anything other than the virus itself affect that death rate?

All precautions are aimed at not overloading the current healthcare systems, how will avoiding those precautions increase the deaths???
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 20:21 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

JackButler wrote:
How?
This virus has a death rate, how can anything other than the virus itself affect that death rate?

All precautions are aimed at not overloading the current healthcare systems, how will avoiding those precautions increase the deaths???

It's been hugely politicised along partisan lines over there. Republicans don't do masks, socialised healthcare or abortions. Democrats do masks, healthcare for all and pro-choice. Very short version.

Anyone that hasn't lived there doesn't realise the incessant marketing, advertising, lobbying, pushing that goes on all day, every day. You're constantly being sold a product, a party, an ideal. Even people I know that are intelligent enough succumb, at least partly, to the marketing. It's astonishing, and significantly worse than when I was over there in 91-93, with 1992 being an Election year.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 20:35 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

The_Fat_Angry_Scotsman wrote:
Riejufixing wrote:
Smile I just hope they get it out as soon as possible, and that people don't abandon precautions prematurely. The daily death rate hasn't even peaked yet (expected 22nd by the look).

Totally agree, I think that the roll-out in the United Kingdom will actually be OK. I think the death rate will be much worse in the United States around that time simply because of how many people there have abandoned the precautions already. You also have anti-mask marches en masse and all sorts going on.

It's bad, and I'm sure it will get worse for them. They're the most infected country of any wih a population of more than a few million, and similarly they're right behind us and Italy in death rate.
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mentalboy
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PostPosted: 21:21 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

Day 6 of some distinctly iffy symptoms that keep coming and going, almost continuous chills and shaking without a fever is bloody odd!
Betablock managed BP has risen to fairly consistent numbers between 145/90 to 151/96, resting heart rate that is usually constantly in mid 50's is dawdling between upper 70's and 86.

Got tested today, nice rural cottage hospital and I was the second car there at midday. Test was almost laughable, blow into tissue (which is tricky when there's nothing up one's snozzer), then nurse swabbed the lower area of both nostrils. Results anywhere between 24hrs and 4 days.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have bothered getting tested but my niece's in-laws had a nice big pre-pandemic style Christmas, with all the trimmings (including professional photo session), all together with zero precautions. All 10 of them got sick and tested positive, one family have since returned to Texas and infected one of the wives frail mum and dad.
Unbeknownst to me, my niece visited her parents at their home, while she was sick, just before I returned from Florida after we had a billy-no-mates style Christmas with just the two of us.
So of 5 in my SC residence, my sister-in-law and her husband have been confined to bed since the middle of last week, their tests eventually came back yesterday as positive, I'm not feeling too chipper and my stubborn 80 year old mother-in-law has developed a cough and refuses point blank to go for a test... Only the nephew seems healthy.

All told, of 5 households, that's 14 positives of a possible 17... just because a pro Trump, anti-mask patriarch, enabled by some of his family who should have known better, couldn't wait until next Christmas for a knees up. Tut Tut

EDIT: Because the test site was very quiet, and no doubt the nurse was felling all unnecessary because of my delightful, pants-dropping accent Laughing , she had time to shoot the breeze with me.
Their neighbouring, not so rural. test sites have been slammed, this one is plodding along at about 100/day. And she also that this county has called the National Guard in to help care for hospitalised Covid patients.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 22:02 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

My employer just offered voluntary testing for 'critical workers' which I signed up for this week. The test kit arrived at my house with lightning speed today. I'm not sure I did it right since the swab on a stick didn't make me gag when pushed to the back of my throat, nor sneeze when the same swab was self-administered deep inside my nose. I was a little bit disgusted though. Sent to Italy for analysis, via Wolverhampton, I should hear back in three or four days whether I'm an asymptomatic carrier. Should be interesting. Repeat once a month I think, with the intention of determining whether my place of work is in step with the locality or whether, in coming to work, we're a hotbed of disease.
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Riejufixing
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PostPosted: 22:08 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Day 6 of some distinctly iffy symptoms ... All told, of 5 households, that's 14 positives of a possible 17... just because a pro Trump, anti-mask patriarch, enabled by some of his family who should have known better, couldn't wait until next Christmas for a knees up. Tut Tut

That's very awful. I hope you all get better (and that the AMP reforms Rolling Eyes ).
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Howling Terror
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PostPosted: 22:14 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

@mentalboy hoping you and yours feel better soon.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 13 Jan 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote

mentalboy wrote:
Day 6 of some distinctly iffy symptoms that keep coming and going, almost continuous chills and shaking without a fever is bloody odd!
Betablock managed BP has risen to fairly consistent numbers between 145/90 to 151/96, resting heart rate that is usually constantly in mid 50's is dawdling between upper 70's and 86.

Got tested today, nice rural cottage hospital and I was the second car there at midday. Test was almost laughable, blow into tissue (which is tricky when there's nothing up one's snozzer), then nurse swabbed the lower area of both nostrils. Results anywhere between 24hrs and 4 days.

Ordinarily I wouldn't have bothered getting tested but my niece's in-laws had a nice big pre-pandemic style Christmas, with all the trimmings (including professional photo session), all together with zero precautions. All 10 of them got sick and tested positive, one family have since returned to Texas and infected one of the wives frail mum and dad.
Unbeknownst to me, my niece visited her parents at their home, while she was sick, just before I returned from Florida after we had a billy-no-mates style Christmas with just the two of us.
So of 5 in my SC residence, my sister-in-law and her husband have been confined to bed since the middle of last week, their tests eventually came back yesterday as positive, I'm not feeling too chipper and my stubborn 80 year old mother-in-law has developed a cough and refuses point blank to go for a test... Only the nephew seems healthy.

All told, of 5 households, that's 14 positives of a possible 17... just because a pro Trump, anti-mask patriarch, enabled by some of his family who should have known better, couldn't wait until next Christmas for a knees up. Tut Tut

EDIT: Because the test site was very quiet, and no doubt the nurse was felling all unnecessary because of my delightful, pants-dropping accent Laughing , she had time to shoot the breeze with me.
Their neighbouring, not so rural. test sites have been slammed, this one is plodding along at about 100/day. And she also that this county has called the National Guard in to help care for hospitalised Covid patients.


That sucks. I hope you all recover quickly.
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