Honda ignition switch playing up

[spamwham]

I have a Honda CB450DX that requires a replacement keyset ignition/barrel, I've tried everywhere for a new or 2nd hand one with no luck. Does anyone have a solution, selling the bike isn't an option as its in pristine condition

[oilyrag]

That it?

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Switch-Key-Connection-Start-Honda-CB-450-Dx-1991-1992-1993/383883242340?hash=item5961396b64:g:ygkAAOSwhvRd8R3i&shqty=1&isGTR=1#shId

[spamwham]

No it's nothing like it, they're claiming its a Honda CB450DX but it isn't I've already been in touch , the right one incorporates a barrel lock.

[Riejufixing]

[spamwham]

I have attached a picture

[spamwham]

The ignition wires wouldn't be the same, I don't mind forgoing the barrel lock the original seems to have 7 wires

[bikenut]

I assume you have tried David silver spares and CMSNL ?

Again I assume you have tried your honda dealer, bet they say nfi.

What is the switch doing, it not doing ?

A dicky switch, works sometimes then doesn't ?

There is such a think as spray contact cleaner.
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nuts about bikes

[bikenut]

The switch in the picture, is that the actual switch ?

I may be possible for you to gently and carefully remove the actual switch base plate by defeating the plastic tangs or barbs that hold the base plate in.

Another pair of hands and blunt suitable probes may work for you, but under there will be sprung loaded swipe contact plates, and possibly detent balls and springs.

You do run the risk of breaking the base plate which would mean you are right in the doggydoo, if you cannot get an other.

Is it a British market model or an import ,( they are all imports as they where made in Japan ?).

Check silvers and CMSNL, maybe the American eBay ?

Do that and get some contact cleaner.

Is it an electrical problem, or more a mechanical problem, or worse, both ?
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nuts about bikes

[bikenut]

It's gunna be a mechanical problem ain't it ?

Worn out or broken mechanical components in the lock plunger mechanism, yes ?

Parts made from mazak, monkey muck.

There is such a thing as 3d printing these days, but getting the lock mechanism apart without wrecking it is gunna be the problem.

There are ways......whilst still keeping it pretty...
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nuts about bikes

[spamwham]

Yep tried all those dealers you mentioned, they stopped making them years ago as its a 1992 model
The picture is not mine, its a picture of one on the Internet in South America, as these bikes were produced in South America for honda as apposed to Japan, if you woggle the key the power cuts out, so I need to aquire one before it dies, as backup, after nearly 30 years old it'll probably brake up if taken apart
And there goes £3000 worth of bike, I've even tried part finders Web site for 2nd hand. Knacked comes to mind!!

[WD Forte]

That dont half look like an early 80s CX500 ignition switch
The only visible difference is that switch has the connector out on flying
leads while the CX switch has the connector built in on the bottom.
It also uses 7 of the 8 terminals
Modding the wiring and plugs would be easy peasy if its a match
I have spare one here I can take pics and dimensions from.

If your bike has AC CDI ignition then I reckon it may be swappable
as the CDI contacts open when IGN is turned on while TI types close.
Best have good wiring info and research before committing to this process.

I have fitted new lock barrels on these.
you see that recessed pin half way down?
I used a sharp centre punch to make a nick along side almost touching
and drilled a 2mm drill in at say a 30 degree angle towards the pin.
the angle and cut of the drill lifted the pin out enough to grab and hoik out
which released the lock barrel
I fitted a new barrel and tapped the pin back in and voila!

That was years ago, nowadays I might consider using say a Dremel or needle fil and gently remove material around
the recess to get hold of the pin then pull it out.
This is only useful if the switch electrical contacts are still in good condition, otherwise its a waste of time.
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bikers smell of wee

[spamwham]

Thank you for your input. It sounds like you know what's what but for me it's double Dutch, I talked to the bike shop and they'll do a wire swap if I get the right replacement, they'll not do to much messing about because it's costly and time consuming with a good chance it'll not work, so I'll have try and see if there's a 2nd hand one available whilst this one still has some life, and be a member of the rac.

[WD Forte]

"they'll not do to much messing about because it's costly and time consuming with a good chance it'll not work,"

I reckon you're going to the wrong garage mate

Looks pretty straightforward to me
I looked up the 450DX and according to info and the diagram I have
its an uprated 400 Souperdream with AC CDI ignition
The switch has three electrical functions
Power on/off
Parking light option ( who actually uses parking lights anyway?)
CDI run/kill
Same as the early 8 pin CX ignition switch
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bikers smell of wee

[spamwham]

So I just to look for a 400 superdream ignition I'll go and have a look right now thanks
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Hjklzxcv
hjklzxcv
HJKLZXCV

[WD Forte]

Whoa! hang on
I'm saying electrically it's very simliar but the Superdream switch may be
different physically.

I'd do it in stages

Remove faulty switch and take pics and measurements
then
Find a switch that physically matches and fits like the old one
and has the same electrical functions.
ie for an AC CDI.

Make any wiring/terminal mods needed

If you can live without parking lights your switch choices get wider

For instance, I have a YBR125 ignition switch here on my desk
that would work, but does not have the parking light option
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bikers smell of wee

[spamwham]

Yep see what you mean, I've been looking at the CB400T it has the same wires in the same place minus parking, just as you say it's shorter than the CB450DX
Ex the lock, but I surpose I could have a physical chain-padlock
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Hjklzxcv
hjklzxcv
HJKLZXCV

[WD Forte]

This is the diagram I'm basing my theory on,
its in Portugese cos Brasil.
top left is 'interruptor de ignicao' or ignition switch

Tl1 and Tl2 are for parking lights
(we don need no stinkin parkin lights)
TL1 power from fuse
TL2 power out to parking lights

Batt1 is power in
Batt2 is power out

IG from CDI box high run low stop
E ground
PA to flasher relay (this also gives a hazard switch option when in P park)

The box bottom right shows the functions in each switch position

I'm not trying to sell you a CX ignition switch but I can see it's very similar functionally and could be pressed into service if it fits the mounting as could many other switches probably

https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Fi.pinimg.com%2Foriginals%2F05%2F66%2Fd4%2F0566d419ac74d4a3645585c864c237d1.jpg&f=1&nofb=1
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bikers smell of wee

[spamwham]

There's many cx500s which year and model as the ones on screen seem to be only 6 pin, with what you've
Given I could visit a local car electrician and see if he could do this for me, so t just get it clear in my mind, check to see if roughly the same size and fitting and fit the electrical contacts as you stated should do the trick apart from the parking lights, I could live with that!
Obviously not to do what you stated earlier as regards to drilling out etc. Thanks a lot
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Hjklzxcv
hjklzxcv
HJKLZXCV

[bikenut]

As you may realise, the ignition switch can switch many related and unrelated things in and out of circuit at the same time.

Under the base plate there will be "terminals" going to the wires, and possibly to other terminals that you don't know about.

The terminals are connected to each other via a copper plate with nipples or raised swipe contacts, the plates being sprung loaded.

There may be 3 or more of these multi nippled copper plates.

As the key is turned, all these copper plates turn with the mounting that the key is connected to inside the switch, that contain/position the copper plates.

It will be a multi function switch, with make and break connections being made at the same time, when the key is turned.

It is not just a simple switch, lots of stuff happens when the key is turned, all happening at the same time.

You need an EXACT wiring diagram for your exact bike, else modification could kill CDI or set bike on fire !!

Get an exact wiring diagram first, then come back.
You saw pm?

In the mean time, take the whole switch unit off the bike ( tamper proof shear bolts ? ), Spray contact cleaner under the wiring base plate, turn the switch on and off etc., Respray contact cleaner, turn on and off, repeat a third time.

Do not let the spray cleaner enter the mechanical locking mechanism, which is usually seperated from the electrical part of the actual switch.

The mechanical part of the unit operates the steering lock part of the unit, whilst driving or turning the electrical part of the switch unit, at the same time.

Retry on bike.

Get that wiring diagram.
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nuts about bikes

[spamwham]

OK getting the wiring seems to be key. Cheers
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Hjklzxcv
hjklzxcv
HJKLZXCV

[bikenut]

Get some contact cleaner, switch cleaner and lube, all in one aerosol can, Screwfix etc..

You will read about lock lubricant, for key locks, spray graphite powder, don't let that get into the electrical part of the switch, real fun and games then !
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nuts about bikes

[spamwham]

Would I spray this down the key ignition hole or is this risky, I would not like to have to take it apart which would be not a good idea at this stage
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Hjklzxcv
hjklzxcv
HJKLZXCV

[oilyrag]

Your ignition is different compared to the other cb400, cb450 and cx500 of that era because it has the red/black wire which is an ignition switch 12V for hazard lights. The others don't have hazard lights. All the other connections seem to be the same.

You could make the hazards work by jumping red to red/black in the connector going to the ignition but that would mean the hazard relay would always have 12V even when the key was off which could possibly drain the battery.

[steve the grease]

In my town there is an auto electrical place - they specialise in vehicle auto electrical stuff. Find one in your town and take the switch there. They will strip clean and re condition the lock/ switch assembly in a maybe an hour or two- it's what they do all day. If you are not confident to do the job yourself and the bike shop obviously don't have a clue about electrics - that would be my solution.
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All the above is my personal opinion, you can see my lips move, but I'm talking out of my arse.
I've been riding, and fixing , bikes for 50 years, in that time the more I learn, the less I am absolutely sure of.....

[WD Forte]