GSXR 600 K7 - Won't Start

[Bantastic]

Hi, wondering if anyone can help?

Hi!

I've just bought a 600 K7 (Track Bike) as a non runner, information from the previous owner is that it was running fine, put away for a couple of months and then wouldn't start when they tried again.

When I turn the bike on the fuel pump starts priming, but then doesn't seem to stop, it just continuously buzzes. I had a quick look and there was very little fuel in the tank, I've put 5L in there but that hasn't made a difference, still buzzes.

I took the hose off to check it wasn't blocked etc and fuel was pumping out, the fuel light is also still on, would have thought 5L was enough to clear this?

The bike turns over when I try but just won't seem to start, any ideas?
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Sig

[bikenut]

This seems to be happening a lot, the modern petrol will not help, ethanol ?

Get a correct wiring diagram which can only help.

Visit CMSNL for the exploded views, for your bike, to show you what's where, again this info can only help.

Establish if HT is happening, those red neon plug caps can help with that as they flash as they pass HT. You will probably have to make an adapter so they are a hassle free in line fit, using your or plug caps etc., for HT testing purposes only.

If you have HT, and it's happening at the correct time ( mark or leads 1, 2, 3 and 4 so they go back on the right cylinder etc. ), You can rule out an ignition problem preliminary at least.

Next would be a fuel problem.

I don't know this system in detail for your bike....CMSNL will show much more detail, just "read" the exploded views.....

I'm off to CMSNL for a look-see....
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nuts about bikes

[Bantastic]

Thanks for the response, I'll take a look on there.

Have just checked the FI code (previous owner said had been checked before) and Cod 29 is flashing - Secondary Throttle position sensor, is that likely to be the culprit?
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Sig

[Nutty]

Shouldn't be the TPS , have a look at the pump relay and the ECU

[Bantastic]

Sorry to be a bit dim, but what exactly am I looking for?
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Sig

[Nutty]

Swap these two if the pump works OK if not it could be wiring or ECU

[Bantastic]

I just switched those over but there was no change. Whilst I was there I popped off the air box to see what the noise was coming from the Throttle Bodies.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DJTYnmxSL8g
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Sig

[Nutty]

So its not coming from the Fuel pump at all?

[Bantastic]

Sorry, I should have been more clear this is in addition the fuel pump noise (can't be heard in the video as it had been momentarily disconnected)

Here's a video I took the other day - that noise from the fuel pump is constant - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ztyq8KhObGo
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Sig

[Nutty]

I think you have a few problems with this bike , you will need the Workshop manual to be able to diagnose the codes The STVA could be a big problem for you ( opening and closing butterflies) , have a look at You Tube first and get acquainted with the procedures and with the Workshop Manual see if you can get round them

[Bantastic]

Cheers, the only code actually showing on the bike is 29, nothing else, unfortunately.

I think it might just be best to call a professional in!

Thanks for your help!
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Sig

[jeffyjeff]

You can probably figure this out. The fuel pump turns on when the key switch is turned on. It turns off when the fuel system is pressurized. Since it is not turning off, either you have a bad fuel pressure sensor or the pump is not pumping. Since the bike was run low, my guess is that the pump is knackered, but you need to test it before replacing what could be a good part. Could be a clogged filter. Start by disconnecting the line to the throttle body and turning the key on. Should have fuel flow.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[Bantastic]

The pump's definitely pumping. I disconnected the hose to check and fuel shot out steadily for the few seconds I had the ignition on.
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Sig

[jeffyjeff]

OK. I would try to find out why the fuel pump is not shutting off. Normally, the ECM (Electronic Control Module - the microprocessor that controls fuel injection) will modulate the fuel pump to maintain a controlled pressure in the fuel manifold. A constant running pump will over pressurize the fuel system.

The pump probably has a constant 12V to it and the ECM controls the ground circuit to turn the pump on and off, in your case, through a relay. Looks like you already verified relay operation by swapping it with the cooling fan relay. If you remove the fuel pump relay, the fuel pump should stop. A short to ground in the relay coil circuit could cause the pump to misbehave like it is. Maybe you pinched a wire when fitting the tank...look for damaged wire insulation allowing the conductor to contact the frame or engine.

There is a fuel pressure sensor somwhere, might be integral with the pump assembly. A failed sensor could also be the cause of your errant fuel pump operation. The TPS sensor is not likely causing your fuel pump problem.

The TPS might just need to be initialized (calibrated). The procedure should be in your manual. Best to follow the TPS troubleshooting steps for code 29 before installing a new TPS sensor. Normally the TPS will not prevent the engine from starting. Even if it were disconnected, the engine should start and idle.

Briefly, here is how the system works. The ECM takes in signals for crankshaft position, air flow, air temperature, throttle position, and fuel pressure. It uses crankshaft speed, throttle position, and air flow information to calculate engine engine speed and load, then signals the fuel injectors to deliver a metered amount of atomized fuel, and signals the ignition coils to fire the spark plugs at the precise crank angle.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[Bantastic]

Thanks, I'll have a check of the wiring when I get home later.

I've just had a look in the manual and it shows the Fuel Pressure Regulator is in the pump itself, so if that's faulty I presume replacing the pump is likely to be easier than sourcing a sensor?

I did post a video of the throttle bodies a couple of posts ago, this isn't likely to be causing the bike not to start at all?
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Sig

[Nutty]

The throttle bodies aside, you will have to have a look at why its not firing, are you getting a spark? The ECU has a Limp home mode that if anything goes wrong it will still run (not very well admittedly) so I would check for a spark , and is any fuel getting toward the injectors, Check whether the ECU is earthing properly as well, I'm sure given time you can work all this out

[redeem ouzzer]

[Bantastic]

Ok so just had another look at the wiring, almost wish I hadn't.

The relay has an extra wire coming from it that bypasses everything else in the loom and connects into the pump wiring, if I disconnect this the pump doesn't turn on.

There was some other wiring that had been messed around with but had been reconnected and taped up.

I had a look at the ECU whilst I was there and it has been flashed, there is an MSG racing sticker on it, but also a small hole exposing the board (almost looks deliberate) Photo attached.

At this point do I assume the previous owner wasn't exactly being truthful with the "was running recently" Or is there a chance it could be something else?
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Sig

[Nutty]

yes . it looks like someone has had a go at the ecu, probably in an attempt to bypass something on the harness, seen this tried with Honda's , think your looking at a new harness and ECU really, god knows what they done to the ECU, maybe that's why the Secondarys are acting up, how much is a ECU and Harness for one of these?
The wire straight to the fuel pump could have been a way of bypassing security, maybe to get the fuel flowing, who knows

[Bantastic]

I did have a quick look online and it does seem to suggest that that is how they used to flash ECU's.

I think you're right about the fuel line, just wondering if there could be something else that's causing it not to start other than the fuel pump if the fact it was running full time was intentional.
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Sig

[Nutty]

did you want to use it for track, as I suppose you could start from that point and let MSG have a look at it, , they wouldn't have left the ECU open like that though, send them a picture cos they will know what someone was digging around for, have you looked to see if there is a spark when turning over, check if the CKP sensor is working or connected

[Bantastic]

The intention was to put it back on the road, but not sure how likely that is now.

I just messaged the guy I bought it from. The ECU was flashed some time ago (before he bought it) and he says he didn't touch any of the wiring.

He also just sent me a video of the bike running, the same noise from the throttle bodies are there, and the pump is on constantly in the video by the sounds of it.

Could it just be something really simple that I'm missing?
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Sig

[Nutty]

In any event it wouldnt be a good idea to have the Fuel Pump running all the time,at the very least it could burn out, he has probably isolated safety items like Tip Over Sensor, side stand , so pull off that wire to the Fuel pump and start looking through the wiring,could be a long job to get round it all, so its turned in to a restore of sorts, but maybe a new loom at least, the fuel pump will have to come out to sort the fuel sensor (that is if its connected up),bit dangerous if it was running on track and he crashed it and pump kept on running, but at least while its in this stage you could try to get spark , have a look at the CKP and check its connected for spark

[P.addy]

Locate the diagnostic pins, bridge them. Read clock error.

If you aren't running OEM clocks and have the diagnostic wire... Good luck!

[xX-Alex-Xx]