Rant: 1000cc vs 600cc sports bikes for the road

[notbike]

Want to get some opinions on this specifically in regards to sports bikes only. Deliberately limiting the scope of this argument because nakeds and tourers are always the more 'suitable' road choice for obvious reasons.

Personally, I think this is very clear cut and I'm utterly biased.

1000cc benefits:
-Better components like suspension because bigger budget
-Far more sophisticated electronics packages and modes
-Usually more creature-comforts like cruise control or heated grips
-More power on-tap at any time which is never a drawback
-Can crunch miles on a motorway at lower RPMs / without going deaf

600cc benefits:
-Generally more fuel efficient but who cares because it's a super not a Honda NC700?
-Usually cheaper on insurance, but if insurance was an issue why would you get a super in the first place because they're thief magnets and your premiums will always be high?

Also why is there this argument that "you cant even use the full potential of a 1000cc superbike on the road"?

Who even tries to use the "full potential of a bike" on a fucking road?

Most people won't use the "full potential of a bike" on the track let alone the road and yet they're coming out with arguments like this.

"Oh sorry I opt not to ride a 1000cc super because I might be tempted to max out at 68 degrees lean on mini roundabouts whereas my 600cc won't allow for that."

I rode an R6 for about 2 years and a couple S1000RR models for 2 years. I'd pick the S1000RR every day of the week on the road.

I only ever see this argument from people riding 600s who have not ridden 1000s that then go on to say that 1000s are 'too much for the road'.

What is "too much"? They go as fast as your right hand and a 600 still goes fast enough that lack of self control would be a problem. Most modern 1000s have so much electronic fuckery going on with the throttle that in lower gears your power is limited anyway so it's barely different to how a breathless 600 behaves under 9k rpm.

Is it just me that sees the whole "600s are better than 1000s on the road" as an utter wank argument in all aspects?

[pepperami]

Hmm? Each to their own I suppose.

Both will get you in trouble if you’re silly with your right wrist.
I agree about the electronical technikery on bigger bikes.
Very nice when it’s working, but when it goes wrong, you just know it’s going to be a arseache to put right.

The modern super sophistication of bikes certainly puts me off buying a new one.

You could say the same thing about cars, but people still buy super duper sports cars and massive 4x4’s.

And that goes back to , each to thier own.

Personally I’d prefer a well looked after GS1000/GPZ1000 than some of the more modern stuff.
Still got plenty of ommph! but a lot easier to maintain .

Balancing carbs , I’d leave that to the experts.

What the fekc do I know?. Just my
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[kgm]

The too much for the road thing...

i've found riding big power bikes, I wind on then I'm having to roll off and reign it in because things are getting silly very quickly. You quickly get used to the straight line power on any bike and it's easy to get into that trap of chasing more. It basically makes it too easy to go too quickly and I find that a little frustrating.

Basically I prefer a bike the makes me work a bit more, it's more involving and, for me, more fun to feel like I'm thrashing the bike a bit. Don't feel like I have the skill to do they with a litre sports bike.

That said, for commuting and the like I prefer more low down and easily accessible grunt and the bigger bikes win there. Many 600 IL4s are a bit flat in the road to me if it's not an open road you can really hoon on.

For me the ideal is circa 8-900cc at maybe around 120bhp-ish. I feel that offers the best blend of ragging fun and grunt for when I just want to get somewhere. I'm not a sports bike guy though and the Yamaha CP3 is probably one of my favourite engines to date.

I do like riding the likes of an mt10 too though. The power is fun but overall I get more kicks from the slightly smaller bike.

I also have a fiesta ST and a Cooper S (the wife's). Similar performance but the fiesta is more fun simply because it's more of a drama to drive at speed on the nadgery, bumpy back roads that I like to drive. The Mini just makes it too easy and takes all of the edginess away. More competent isn't always better and on the roads I like best more power often doesn't give you an advantage.

Just my opinion, I totally get why you might like the bigger bikes better

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[MCN]

DFA. (Don't Fcuk Aboot) litre if you can afford one.

Much easier to ride. Much easier to ride.

And you can use the full potential on the road.

As long as you keep the heid.
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Disclaimer: The comments above may be predicted text and not necessarily the opinion of MCN.

[chickenstrip]

I think both have their merits, but for me it often comes down to only being able to have one bike at a time, in which case I'll usually go for the litre option. Just more versatile. Having said that, when it comes to sports bikes specifically, they're definitely way more than I can get the best from these days. What I've settled on seems just about the right balance for me - about 140rwhp. But it's things in combination that make it right, not just the power output.

I don't see any reason for a rant on the subject. As Peppers says, each to their own. I'm not particularly enamoured with electronic complexity, having come up on bikes without it all. Mine has little of it; carbs, no rider aids. Just good brakes and suspension and a responsive engine. It has good comfort levels and just does everything to a standard that I'm happy with.
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[Raza]

Most bikers I've met don't care so long as it has two wheels, an engine (even that's optional) and looks like fun.

The solution is mind over matter. If you don't mind then it does not matter.

Where are you planning to go first on your trusty new steed?
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[MarJay]

If you need a 1000cc to go quick on the road, you're a lazy rider and can't use the throttle properly. If you want a rush, to get that thrashing feeling, then it has to be something less than 1000cc.

To be honest, I have never encountered anyone who has claimed to need a 1000cc sportsbike for the road? You seem to be the only one who ever makes this kind of assertion, so maybe you're saying more about yourself than you are about others?

I for one am rather sad of the death of the 600 sportsbike class, especially as there haven't been any 750s for years either. I could live with it if there was a ZX7R or GSXR750 on sale today, but there isn't. I currently own a 1000cc 'sports' bike with 150ish bhp, and it's stupid. I can't honestly imagine more power would be useful or desirable unless you're racing.

I challenge you to argue why you need that extra 50bhp on the road, how it benefits you and how having 50bhp of top end over more midrange is in any way better UNLESS you're on a race track.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.

[chickenstrip]

A Street Triple has as much power as the litre bikes I grew up with. But it's lighter and the handling just makes those old bikes look like buses. But it isn't so good for touring, and lacks an effective fairing. Otherwise, I could have lived with one as my only bike. But its power delivery is also quite linear, so not really comparable to many other 600 sports bikes - you can be lazy, or switch it up to using the gears, which was certainly fun for when I was in that mood. Sometimes I do prefer to be able to just open the throttle in any gear, any revs and go though. The litre bike means not having to do so much preplanning for overtakes.

I too like playing tunes on a gearbox, but I don't want to be doing it all the time. I lived with an RG500 as an only bike for a time, and it quickly wore a bit thin, considering the kind of trips I had to do on it, as well as the rides just for kicks.

One other thing about litre bikes on the road - they carry a bit more weight, which means they don't get thrown around by poor road surfaces so readily.
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[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

I totally get Meef's joy at sports bikes, and I wouldn't take that away from him, but they're just not suited to getting the best from on public roads. They never really were. I think even if I hadn't been forced to give them up by injury, I would have given them up by now. Maybe if I'd been wealthier, I might have got into track riding.

I used to ride a lot in Wales, on those great roads, the nearest you'll get to track conditions on the road in this country. Me and a mate on Fazers, his a later FZ1, another mate on a GSXR750. None of us could much get the better of each other, and not many sports bikes came past us - we overtook a fair few. If I could ride them still, I don't think I could have gone much faster on those rides if I'd had something sportier, whether 600 or litre.

I rode with Alex A from here once, him on his modern sports Ducati. No way I could have kept with him, but I kept him in sight for quite a bit, until I decided I was just pushing my Fazer too hard for my luck to hold. Bet I had as much fun as he did though
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[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

[redeem ouzzer]

Meef is just Willy waving because he thinks his quick and has owned two late model sports bikes, probably bought with mummy money.

I’ve said it before, if he’s so quick then be a Real Man and go racing.
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[MarJay]

[chickenstrip]

[recman]

There's only been a couple of times in the past I've wished I was on a litre bike and that was when I rode with other litre bike riders, in a straight line.
It was slightly frustrating having to reign it in on the bends, waiting for them to haul their barges around.

[chickenstrip]

[recman]

Having said that, I'd find room for an MT10*, if Yamaha could make it a bit more fuel frugal.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

Sometimes needs must.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mOn_RQIwGPs

[Easy-X]

I'll walk into this conversation as an outsider...

1) I've only got into bikes in the last couple of years but isn't the whole 600 vs 1000 battle over now? 600s lost - tears all round, press F in the chat to pay respects.

2) Classically (as in buy some 10yo bikes) isn't this just a track only question? 600s slightly lighter, better on tight circuits versus 1000s quicker with long straights. Watching the TT races the difference in times between the 600 & 1000 classes is close to fuck all for a normal, non-racer human terms and that's a big course.
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