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MCN
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 Posted: 21:34 - 28 May 2021  Post subject: |
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I'm sorry, I fuhkin lost it at, "Well what do you know? Square Roots."
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Islander
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Posted: 21:35 - 28 May 2021  Post subject: |
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| Easy-X wrote: | The reconciliation of General Relativity and Quantum Mechanics seems important, yes?
Let's start with E = mc2
Is this statement true?
What the letters represent and their underlying values is neither here nor there as actually the question should really be "can we use mathematics to prove things?"
And the answer to that is "yes and no." Yes you can prove things but only if you accept unprovable axioms. And there's the clever thing with mathematics: you can use it to prove that you can't prove everything with mathematics 
A description of Quantum Mechanics that fits with General Relativity or visa versa a modified form of GR that is consistent with QM might not be possible not because it's an unsolvable problem but because it might not be solvable mathematically  |
The problem with that is that GR works on the macro scale and QM works on, well the quantum scale. I'm not sure they'll ever be reconciled directly. |
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Ribenapigeon
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MCN
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Ribenapigeon
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| chickenstrip |
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chickenstrip
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Posted: 23:26 - 28 May 2021  Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: |
The problem with that is that GR works on the macro scale and QM works on, well the quantum scale. I'm not sure they'll ever be reconciled directly. |
The thing is, both exist alongside each other (or one within the other), so unless we have our (not my!) theories wrong, they must reconcile in some way or another, surely? I find it difficult to believe that they have nothing at all to do with each other, just because we're talking vastly different scales. There has to be some kind of direct connection, I'd have thought.
Be gentle with my poor, struggling brain!
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Islander
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| Posted: 19:53 - 29 May 2021 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | | Islander wrote: |
The problem with that is that GR works on the macro scale and QM works on, well the quantum scale. I'm not sure they'll ever be reconciled directly. |
The thing is, both exist alongside each other (or one within the other), so unless we have our (not my!) theories wrong, they must reconcile in some way or another, surely? I find it difficult to believe that they have nothing at all to do with each other, just because we're talking vastly different scales. There has to be some kind of direct connection, I'd have thought.
Be gentle with my poor, struggling brain! |
Yes they do exist alongside each other but they deal with different things. GR posits that gravity is an effect of space time distortion caused by mass concentrations which means it isn't an actual force.
Quantum theory or rather quantum mechanics describes the properties of matter at the atomic and subatomic level. It's highly accurate but describes probabilities rather than absolute certainties as the act of observation changes the result (you can know where something is or what its momentum is but never both simultaneously).
In other words, GR describes a property of space time at the macro level and QM describes properties of matter at the atomic level and below.
So, unless gravity turns out to be a real force and we discover the boson that carries it, the two are unlikely to be reconciled.
There have been attempts to do so through string theory and quantum loop gravity but with little success really. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 20:14 - 29 May 2021 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: |
Yes they do exist alongside each other but they deal with different things. GR posits that gravity is an effect of space time distortion caused by mass concentrations which means it isn't an actual force. |
What is "mass"?
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Islander
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Nobby the Bastard
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Islander
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 21:51 - 29 May 2021 Post subject: |
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| Islander wrote: | | Nobby the Bastard wrote: | Isn't the higgs boson the.gravity force carrier? |
No but it does impart mass. |
How?
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Islander
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 22:13 - 29 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Ok. Treacle I can deal with
What more can you say about the Higgs field? Does it exist at all times everywhere, or just where 'mass' (presumably in the form of the fundamentals, such as quarks and all that little lot that actually make up matter(?)) is? If there is no mass, in other words, is there still a Higgs field in that place? Or does it require mass to exist? Kind of chicken-and-egg question! Where my (admittedly likely highly confused thinking) is going is that, and correct me if when I'm inevitably wrong, but the Higg's bosun was discovered as a particle when smashing other particles together to see what flew out of the wreckage, yes? And then a Higgs field was inferred from that?
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Islander
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| Posted: 22:24 - 29 May 2021 Post subject: |
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| chickenstrip wrote: | Ok. Treacle I can deal with
What more can you say about the Higgs field? Does it exist at all times everywhere, or just where 'mass' (presumably in the form of the fundamentals, such as quarks and all that little lot that actually make up matter(?)) is? If there is no mass, in other words, is there still a Higgs field in that place? Or does it require mass to exist? Kind of chicken-and-egg question! Where my (admittedly likely highly confused thinking) is going is that, and correct me if when I'm inevitably wrong, but the Higg's bosun was discovered as a particle when smashing other particles together to see what flew out of the wreckage, yes? And then a Higgs field was inferred from that? |
No the whole Higgs mechanism was posited in the 60s. The discovery of the boson merely confirmed it.
The field exists at all times everywhere.
Everything that interacts with the Higgs field has mass - there are only two particles know that have zero rest mass and therefore don't interact with the field. Those are gauge bosons, the photon and the gluon - and that's why the photon can travel at the speed of light. |
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chickenstrip
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| Posted: 22:54 - 29 May 2021 Post subject: |
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Could mass distort space-time if there were no Higgs field?
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Islander
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 3 years, 346 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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