E10 petrol

[Jim Mc]

Looks like the new E10 fuel is going to obsolete a bunch of older motorcycles.

You can check here: https://check-vehicle-compatibility-e10-petrol.service.gov.uk/

My FI honda is ok but sounds like many of the carb based 125s are going to be useless come the winter. Have most 125s switched over to FI these days?

[xX-Alex-Xx]

I’d like to think so. I bet there’s at least one or two Chinese bikes still running carbs.
____________________
DILLIGAF

[martin734]

Mine is not compatible, but it doesn't matter as I can still run it on super unleaded.
____________________
Current bike: ST1100 "Big Red"

[wr6133]

[Nobby the Bastard]

And the same was true when leaded petrol was phased out. What of it?
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[ThatDippyTwat]

[to v or not to v]

[ThunderGuts]

As said, super unleaded should be E5 at most for now. The last bit is of course a slight concern.

Not sure if longer term there's an additive that can be added to E10 to make it more "old-bike friendly"?

Other thing I've read about, not sure how true, but the ethanol being hydroscopic means non-lined steel tanks might be at more risk of rusting if the fuel is left in there for a while?
____________________
TG.

[Easy-X]

[blurredman]

[martin734]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[martin734]

I remember a similar panic when they phased out 4* petrol and everyone said it would kill off the classic car and bike, yet you can still buy lead replacement additive. Even if they do make all petrol E10 I am sure that there will be additives available that allow E10 to be used in all vehicles, or vehicle mods that allow them to use it.
____________________
Current bike: ST1100 "Big Red"

[Nobby the Bastard]

The things that are most likely need to be changed will be fuel pipes and seals. These are likely to be come available quite quickly for most bikes.

I can see some plastic tanks being affected along with fuel filters.

It would take years before ethanol will cause any sort of problem with anything metal, if ever.

So, its not on a par with having to fit hardened valve seats...
____________________
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[xX-Alex-Xx]

[ThunderGuts]

Presumably any potential damage from E10 is a cumulative thing? For example, if touring around the north of Scotland, getting E5 / super unleaded I can imagine would be challenging, so a handful of tanks of E10 before switching back to E5 again once reaching civilisation?

Apparently my 1995 C90 is OK on E10 according to the generic Honda blurb that all their bikes made for the EU market since 1993 are OK with it, but it seems a tad unlikely unless there were some wholesale changes to the materials used that year. I'll be putting super in it (I do anyway as it seems to like it).
____________________
TG.

[JustinW]

"Briggs & Stratton's new and improved Fuel Fit keeps fuel fresh and protects engines more than ever before. Fuel Fit not only keeps the carburettor clean for easy starting but now also protects against the corrosive effects of ethanol and maintains fuel stability for up to 3 years."

[photoman]

There has been a lot of poor information on this subject and the Government website is no different (no change there then). As far as I can tell from reading various sources, listening the the local soothsayer, or even speaking to manufacturers the 'threat' posed by E10 is grossly over egg'd.

The main problem seems be fuel pipes from the tank to the injectors or carbs can decompose/break down through the action of the ethanol but it appears this was anticipated at least 10 years ago and the flexible fuel pipes made since 2010, both as original equipment or aftermarket replacement whilst not ' ethanol proof' (very little is) but they are far better and should last the life of the vehicle.

Some vehicles have plastic tanks and they are suspect, but not proven to be affected by ethanol.

Metal tanks can also be affected by water absorbed by the ethanol leaching out and corroding the bottom of the tank UNLESS the tank is occasionally emptied out and only then if the fuel is not regularly refilled with fresh.

There has not been any mention about injection systems being affected by ethanol, but carburettor floats if made from cheap plastic may be. The soft tip of float bowl needles should not be affected because they are a compound which need changing at intervals anyway. I have not heard of complaints yet after years of E5 use both here and in Europe..
.
It seems to me that they are following the rhetoric of the popular press where they regularly quote words like:- 'maybe', 'possibly', 'could', 'would'. 'should', as gospel, when it is not certain, merely opinion.

I may be wrong but I don't think so.

[Robby]

We had the same discussions of doom for E5. It turned out to be an occasional annoyance, not evil poison that would insta-scrap everything older than 10 years. E10 would be the same. If it did destroy a whole load of vehicles, the oil companies would be facing a load of class-action lawsuits and the government would be losing elections.

Ride your bike. If E10 breaks something, replace the broken part with something that works with modern fuel.

[photoman]

[redeem ouzzer]

The main issue is E10 detonates like fuck in quite a lot of old two strokes, even if they are bog standard. You either get the heads machined for more capacity / larger squish, retard the ignition massively or use Super unleaded all the fucking time, or a combination of all three if you have a tuned bike like myself.
____________________
Be a REAL MAN!

[JustinW]

One area of concern would be the crankshaft seals on older 2 stroke engines.
The ethanol will harden the type older seals. The seals are in direct contact with the fuel, and the hardening will affect compression and lead to harder starting, poor performance etc. They lose flexibility and no longer seal as they should.
It's solvable by replacing the seals with Viton ones, but obviously a bigger job than changing a fuel pipe. Fuel additive should protect the older seals too.

[photoman]

[xX-Alex-Xx]

Why would it make it run hotter? It's effectively got a higher octane than normal fuel and is less calorific?

What am I missing?
____________________
DILLIGAF

[blurredman]

If you're worried about it, buy an infra-red heat gun and keep an eye on it like that?


Had several fill ups of e10 on my cx500 now. No difference.


Mind you, had about 2-3k miles in scandanavia in 2018 running on e10 too.
____________________
CBT: 12/06/10, Theory: 22/09/10, Module 1: 09/11/10, Module 2: 19/01/11
Past: 1991 Honda CG125BR-J, 1992 (1980) Honda XL125S, 1996 Kawasaki GPZ500S, 1979 MZ TS150.
Current: 1973 MZ ES250/2 - 18k, 1979 Suzuki TS185ER - 10k, 1981 Honda CX500B - 91k, 1987 MZ ETZ250 (295cc) - 39k, 1989 MZ ETZ251 - 50k.