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Do you use full or part-synthetic oil?

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Simon13245
Borekit Bruiser



Joined: 19 Jun 2021
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PostPosted: 09:55 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Simon13245 wrote:
it's just better in every way.


In which ways is it better in every way? And;

Simon13245 wrote:

I want my engine to last as long as it can.


How is it going to help with that?


Better lubrication means a longer life span, I thought it was common knowledge ...
Synthetic oil protects and lubes better than semi, lasts longer, resists viscosity breakdown and the list goes on.
I don't understand why would you consider semi-synthetic over the synthetic. The only advantage of semi-synth is the lower price, and nothing more.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 10:10 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
A lot of older bikes's clutches can't cope with fully synthetic, thats why.
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droog
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PostPosted: 10:23 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Thanks for all the interesting and informative posts - I've read various technical articles but there is nothing better than getting the opinions and advice of real-life riders like yourselves.

Much appreciated. Thumbs Up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 10:38 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:
Better lubrication means a longer life span


How much longer a life span will you get exactly? Given 2 identical engines, one run on semi, and one on fully synth? 1000 miles? 10000? 100000?

I'm sure fully synth is better, but unless you know how much better, you really have no idea if fully synth is worth using or not. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying, unless you (or anyone) can quantify it, just saying "it's better" doesn't mean much. If it's 2% better (however you are defining "better"), but costs 25% more, it's probably not worth it, is it?
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arry
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PostPosted: 10:40 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:

Better lubrication means a longer life span, I thought it was common knowledge ...
Synthetic oil protects and lubes better than semi, lasts longer, resists viscosity breakdown and the list goes on.
I don't understand why would you consider semi-synthetic over the synthetic. The only advantage of semi-synth is the lower price, and nothing more.


Noting that something is better doesn't make an argument for why it's necessary. It would be important for your oil to be better at resisting viscosity breakdown, if your currently used oil was experiencing viscosity breakdown. Resisting it more is only relevant if it's ever going to actually happen.

You wouldn't fit a bullet proof shield in place of your car windscreen unless you expect to get shot at.
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Simon13245
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PostPosted: 11:13 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
Simon13245 wrote:
Better lubrication means a longer life span


How much longer a life span will you get exactly? Given 2 identical engines, one run on semi, and one on fully synth? 1000 miles? 10000? 100000?

I'm sure fully synth is better, but unless you know how much better, you really have no idea if fully synth is worth using or not. I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm just saying, unless you (or anyone) can quantify it, just saying "it's better" doesn't mean much. If it's 2% better (however you are defining "better"), but costs 25% more, it's probably not worth it, is it?


I don't know how much better it is, but according to all mechanics, articles etc, it's simply better. Here in Poland Synth oil is not expensive. For my car, good quality synth oil is like 25$ for 5L. I change it every 10k km. The same for the bike, two-stroke oil Motul 710 7$/L. If however, in your country the price difference is very big then I understand that there is no sense in overpaying.

arry wrote:
Simon13245 wrote:

Better lubrication means a longer life span, I thought it was common knowledge ...
Synthetic oil protects and lubes better than semi, lasts longer, resists viscosity breakdown and the list goes on.
I don't understand why would you consider semi-synthetic over the synthetic. The only advantage of semi-synth is the lower price, and nothing more.


Noting that something is better doesn't make an argument for why it's necessary. It would be important for your oil to be better at resisting viscosity breakdown, if your currently used oil was experiencing viscosity breakdown. Resisting it more is only relevant if it's ever going to actually happen.

You wouldn't fit a bullet proof shield in place of your car windscreen unless you expect to get shot at.


It is not necessary, but it protects the engine better (according to all the tests, articles, mechanic youtube videos etc.). I don't take any chances and I will apply a better solution for my engine so I know it has the best protection possible. Again, good quality synth oil in my country is not expensive. I don't change it very often so price has even less effect on my choice. I understand where you are coming from, but for me, there is no sense in experimenting if cheaper semi-synth will perform just as well as synth oil.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 12:01 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
...thinking about it, my recently purchased 800 sounds the same way, I wonder if the previous owner has put fully synth in it? Thinking


I always drop the oil ASAP when buying a bike. No idea what it's been through or how long it's been in there. I've seen too many nasty things and heard enough horror stories.
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redeem ouzzer
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PostPosted: 12:18 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:
In my NSR I use full synthetic, it's just better in every way. The same with my car. It's a little more expensive option but I want my engine to last as long as it can.

Quality oil filter is also an important thing. In my car for example (Ford) cheaper oil filters weigh less and have less dense filtering material than the OEM ones.


Your NSR is a 2T, completely different kettle of fish.

I run a couple of 2T bikes, one standard as the day Suzuki made it, the other one tuned to bollocks and running premix. I buy Exxol fully synth 2T and use it in both, did use Castrol Power 2T before but got expensive and hard to find in anything other than 1l bottles.

There's quite a difference in a 4T with it's internals sloshing around in oil and a 2T with rings bulging in and out of ports a hundred times a second surviving only on an oil mist.
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Simon13245
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Mylarballoonsfan wrote:
Simon13245 wrote:
In my NSR I use full synthetic, it's just better in every way. The same with my car. It's a little more expensive option but I want my engine to last as long as it can.

Quality oil filter is also an important thing. In my car for example (Ford) cheaper oil filters weigh less and have less dense filtering material than the OEM ones.


Your NSR is a 2T, completely different kettle of fish.

I run a couple of 2T bikes, one standard as the day Suzuki made it, the other one tuned to bollocks and running premix. I buy Exxol fully synth 2T and use it in both, did use Castrol Power 2T before but got expensive and hard to find in anything other than 1l bottles.

There's quite a difference in a 4T with it's internals sloshing around in oil and a 2T with rings bulging in and out of ports a hundred times a second surviving only on an oil mist.


Yes, I understand, that's why I also gave an example with a car. Car oil is not exactly the same as 4t motorcycle oil, but aside from few additives, it's very similar. The principle of synth oil still applies.

In the future, I will definitely upgrade to a bigger 4 stroke bike. Likewise with a car I will turn my attention to a synth oil.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 13:08 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:
Yes, I understand

Evidently not.
Simon13245 wrote:
aside from few additives, it's very similar.

Friction modifiers in a wet clutch system are fairly likely to cause clutch slip even at light loads. In terms of composition it may be similar, but the end result can be very different.
Simon13245 wrote:
In the future, I will definitely upgrade to a bigger 4 stroke bike. Likewise with a car I will turn my attention to a synth oil.

As you have already been told, in some cases, it's detrimental and a bad idea.

I suggest going back, and re-reading the answers, you're missing the point.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:39 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
And when the manual states semi-synth are you still going to use fully synth?
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Simon13245
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PostPosted: 13:50 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
And when the manual states semi-synth are you still going to use fully synth?


Then I will use the one that the manual recommends. I see that I made some thinking errors while responding to the all answers.

For my bike (2T) semi synth and synth are both ok, but I will choose the better option.

If your manual says semi-synth or simply synth will cause problems, then it's understandable to use semi-synth. I wasn't aware that old bikes don't like synths.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
This thread reminded me... checked the shed and I have two unopened bottles of Motul 10W40 (semi-synthetic) Smile
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Simon13245
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PostPosted: 19:00 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Simon13245 wrote:
I do understand and it's your problem that you do not see it, not mine.

Tell you what kiddo, go play with your "youtube mechanics", people have tried to explain in about as nice a way as it gets, and you're telling them they're wrong. So you obviously know better than us mere mortals, so I suggest not dirtying yourself with us peons any more.

On the off chance you've got some listening ears on... It's got cock all to do with expense, and everything to do with the fact that for some bikes it is, quite categorically, the wrong fecking oil. You don't get your bias confirmed so you throw your toys out of the pram. Middle Finger Middle Finger


Calm down adult human being, it's just an oil discussion Very Happy I'm sorry for throwing my bias here, now I know some bikes don't like synth oil.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 12 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:
...it's just an oil discussion Very Happy


Shall we move onto the guitar "tonewood" discussion next? Laughing
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Simon13245
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PostPosted: 13:00 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThatDippyTwat wrote:
Simon13245 wrote:
Calm down adult human being, it's just an oil discussion Very Happy I'm sorry for throwing my bias here, now I know some bikes don't like synth oil.


If you think that's "abusive" kiddo, you're in for a shock.
I reckon you should shove some 80W90 in your 2T and rag the tits off it. Bigger numbers, gotta be better, innit bruv?


Chill out and stop crying. I understand that you are mentally a second-grader, but just like I said previously it was just a discussion about oil. Didn't come here to pick fights with people like you Wink
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:20 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:
Didn't come here to pick fights with people like you Wink


With respect, sir, you have picked the wrong forum Laughing Laughing Laughing
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 15:51 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
arry wrote:
Fizzer Thou wrote:

Oil is cheap as against an engine rebuild,so I tend to change the oil every 1000 miles.


It's always an interesting argument because you can extend it out or reign it in.

By using the same argument I could say why not every 500 miles, then?

Also possible to question why it isn't every 2000 miles instead ?


The oil capacity of the KTM is only one litre,so it gets a hard time.Hence the regularity of oil replacement.

Unlike a friend's Honda 600 Hornet that I serviced recently.It took almost a whole 5 litre container of Halfreuds semi-precious 10/40,as against just under 4 litres for the R1 and the Exup-R.
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Simon13245
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PostPosted: 17:22 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I came to realize now that instead engaging in childish keyboard arguments, I want to clarify and explain what I wanted to say throughout the topic.

First of all, sorry for missing the point about some of the bikes not liking synth oil. I will explain further below.

My way of thinking here was: this particular motorcycle engine accepts both semi-synth and also synth oil (neither has drawbacks on the engine and transmission). Some folks used semi-synth over the years and they see no reason to upgrade so fully synth. That's understandable. Other people however will think that they want to protect the engine as best as possible, so they will convert to fully synth oil. Both situations are understandable.

What I did not take into consideration is that fully synth oil causes problems, like clutch slipping. In that case, I will go with recommended oil and will not think twice about it.

Replying to Arry and ZenDog, I understand that fully synth oil might be overkill and there is no clear indication of how much better it is. I still think that using fully synth oil for your engine is ok, IF fully synth oil is suitable for a particular engine.

Also, Mylarballoonsfan mentioned that 2t and 4t are completely different engines. Yes, I am very aware of that. That's why I compared a 4t motorcycle engine to a car engine (which wasn't quite a good idea). They both have an oil pan, an oil filter, oil is slashing because of the crankshaft etc. That's why I shouldn't mention my 2t powered bike because (just like Mylarballoonsfan reminded me) only injects a small amount of oil through the carb.

The author of the topic asked whether we "shell out more for the extra benefits of full-synthetic bike engine oil or are you happy with part-synthetic". To that, I answer: for the peace of mind I will use fully synthetic oil, only IF it doesn't cause any problems, and only when I'm sure that fully synth oil is suitable for this engine.

So in the end I would like to apologize for all the errors I made and the confusion I caused. Also thank you for all the replies that made me realize my mistake.

Cheers.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:32 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
I, however, paid for the full hour.

Comparing a car engine to a bike engine, even if 4T, is stupid simply because a bike tends to have a clutch in an oil bath and a car tends to have a dry clutch.

Your whole argument was flawed from the start.
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ThatDippyTwat
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PostPosted: 17:33 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Simon13245 wrote:
I understand that you are mentally a second-grader, but just like I said previously it was just a discussion about oil. Didn't come here to pick fights with people like you Wink

Ah. An American. Full of Autism as well given the Teffers type wall 'o text.

I give it a month before the flounce.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 17:38 - 13 Aug 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
ThatDippyTwat wrote:

I give it a month before the flounce.


I consider that a challenge. I'm going for achieving it by the end of the day.
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