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New Zealand to ban cigarettes for future generations

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Fat Angry Scotsman
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PostPosted: 12:56 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
There is an argument for banning people


No people: no problem. Laughing
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 12:57 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Polarbear wrote:


Well that's a bollox argument as the tax revenue is commensurate with the usage so it hasn't changed (except got bigger as the gov increase it) per smoker at all.


Apart from the decrease in uptake of smoking...

Yes the diehard (no pun intended but still Laughing ) smokers still exist but they're a declining customer base and revenue resources.


Then what's the problem, they are dieing out (no pun intended Laughing ) and while they are still smoking they are certainly paying their way with the tax. Whats a packet of fags nowadays? a tenner? When I was at sea 200 was £3.60.
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Im-a-Ridah
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PostPosted: 13:05 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
The real issue is why people are smoking or taking drugs. It's a result of another problem in their life which should be addressed in most cases e.g stress, marriage problems. It is very similar to the case of guns, guns are not a problem they just take the blame for societies failures in other areas around mental health, and the root causes crime. Ultimately much of this comes down to an unwillingness to ask difficult questions. If we handled crime properly offences like burglary, robbery etc would be near zero.

doggone wrote:
Islander wrote:


Step away from the tinfoil hat. Laughing

You like saying this but she is one of the WEF young leaders you can look it up on their site. here Oh and just look at who else is there it's like a list of villains.
And one of their aims is to be able to control what you will be allowed to buy because they know better.
Progressing quite well isn't it.


You may also want to read up on common purpose. They are upto the same sorts of activities in the shadows. They realised the public wouldn't vote for woke so they just bypassed democracy.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:34 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Fat Angry Scotsman wrote:
Not really, I think that if you are known to do things that increase your risk over a certain number of standard deviations from the mean of the population you should pay for private health insurance. I am also Utilitarian in some ways.


That's fair enough if NZ said "you can carry on smoking but don't think you'll be getting public health care!" But that would come across as cruel. This is more "We're doing this for your own good because we care!" which is easier to sell.

To be clear (and I admit I CBA to wade through NZ government bills, just studying our own government's is taxing enough) I have read they will be banning sale of tobacco and tobacco-based products for future generations.

Cigarettes (in the cellophane wrapped, condensed evil variety) are a specific product artificially created to exploit and impoverish. Yes, banning them is correct IMHO. But what about everything else? How about heat not burn, snus, snuff, ecigs, pipe tobacco, rolling tobacco? Granted none of these are without health risks but AFAIK they are not of identical risk as with cigarettes.

Then there's patches, sprays and gum. Oh they'll be okay because Big Pharma make them. And if they're ineffectual we can just do some victim blaming.

tl;dr let's not conflate cigarettes, tobacco, tobacco-based and ultimately nicotine as all one and the same thing. It's the lie that the ideologs have been peddling for years Sad
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Im-a-Ridah wrote:
The real issue is why people are smoking or taking drugs.


Probably better to ask why most people aren't taking drugs. Life is a rollercoaster as the song goes Smile
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 13:54 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Are we all gonna eventually have to live forever?! Not be allowed to die from anything? Crying or Very sad

Fuck it - if they ban smoking here, I'm taking up heroin Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:58 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Are we all gonna eventually have to live forever?! Not be allowed to die from anything? Crying or Very sad

Fuck it - if they ban smoking here, I'm taking up heroin Laughing


That's the duality of man: 50% animal, 50% immortal god. Life is just about feeding one and denying the other.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Are we all gonna eventually have to live forever?! Not be allowed to die from anything? Crying or Very sad

Fuck it - if they ban smoking here, I'm taking up heroin Laughing


That's the duality of man: 50% animal, 50% immortal god. Life is just about feeding one and denying the other.


Not being funny or dismissing your comment or anything like that, but you do talk some bollocks sometimes Easy Laughing

I should know... Smile
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:07 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Whats a packet of fags nowadays? a tenner? When I was at sea 200 was £3.60.

Wink

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/mcs/media/images/52317000/jpg/_52317205_000304602-1.jpg
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:38 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Freddyfruitbat wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
Whats a packet of fags nowadays? a tenner? When I was at sea 200 was £3.60.

Wink

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/mcs/media/images/52317000/jpg/_52317205_000304602-1.jpg


Not far off me, I'm just much more grumpy.
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tatters
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PostPosted: 16:23 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Canada banned menthol cigarettes a few years ago and the black market has flourished. Mostly due to some Indian reserves manufacturing them along with regular cigarettes for reserve use only which they are allowed to do (different rules for Canada`s professional victims) but of course they illegally sell them tax free to anyone.

Black market prices are now half as much as legal taxed cigarettes and easy to get anywhere Laughing
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:34 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Not being funny or dismissing your comment or anything like that, but you do talk some bollocks sometimes Easy Laughing

I should know... Smile


You've only just noticed or you were too polite to say before? Laughing Laughing Laughing
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha
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PostPosted: 16:54 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
tatters wrote:
Canada banned menthol cigarettes a few years ago


so did the UK - not aware of any black market tho
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:55 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
chickenstrip wrote:
Are we all gonna eventually have to live forever?! Not be allowed to die from anything? Crying or Very sad

Fuck it - if they ban smoking here, I'm taking up heroin Laughing


Again? I thought you couldn't afford it. Razz
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Islander
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:
Freddyfruitbat wrote:


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/mcs/media/images/52317000/jpg/_52317205_000304602-1.jpg


Not far off me, I'm just much more grumpy.


How many ships have sunk with you on them then? Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 18:00 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
trevor saxe-coburg-gotha wrote:
tatters wrote:
Canada banned menthol cigarettes a few years ago


so did the UK - not aware of any black market tho


that's because they found a workaround. You CAN buy menthol filter tips and roll your own or a menthol inpregnated card that you slip into your packet of fags.

Vaping seems to be a much bigger thing in the UK than it is in Europe. I wonder how other countries like Canada or NZ have picked up on it?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:08 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:
Are we all gonna eventually have to live forever?! Not be allowed to die from anything? Crying or Very sad

Fuck it - if they ban smoking here, I'm taking up heroin Laughing


Again? I thought you couldn't afford it. Razz


You can turn to crime to fund a heroin habit Very Happy
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 18:33 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
Vaping seems to be a much bigger thing in the UK than it is in Europe. I wonder how other countries like Canada or NZ have picked up on it?


I know Oz is openly hostile to ecigs, NZ is not far behind (don't know about Canada.) The UK seems to be an anomaly.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 18:46 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Vaping seems to be a much bigger thing in the UK than it is in Europe. I wonder how other countries like Canada or NZ have picked up on it?


I know Oz is openly hostile to ecigs, NZ is not far behind (don't know about Canada.) The UK seems to be an anomaly.


Really? That does surprise me.
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tatters
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PostPosted: 20:23 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
stinkwheel wrote:
Vaping seems to be a much bigger thing in the UK than it is in Europe. I wonder how other countries like Canada or NZ have picked up on it?


I know Oz is openly hostile to ecigs, NZ is not far behind (don't know about Canada.) The UK seems to be an anomaly.


Sold everywhere cigarettes would normally be sold along with specialty vaping shops, doesn't seem to be popular.

Cannabis which once they legalized a few years ago and started selling from shops didn't really increase use, though a lot of that was due to taxes making it still cheaper to buy from private sellers...

I worked on the construction of one of the largest grow sites in Canada by Edmonton airport. They have the capacity to grow up to 100-500 tons a year but the bubble burst on cannabis due to lack of demand and the place shutdown.
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Hetzer
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PostPosted: 22:43 - 09 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Jesus, NZ going nazi, trying to outdo Oz?
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 00:03 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
doggone wrote:
It's unexpected how NZ have turned into such control freaks,


Not at all.
They have always been secretly conservative (with a small c), occasionally to the point of narrowmindedness and can be inclined to being extremely provincial.

Not what the world normally thinks of NZ, but in fact it is very true.
Under that quirky outspoken appearance, many Kiwis are frighteningly straight.

I'm sure Jacinda is very lovely IRL but that wokeness - which causes her to appear as though she is constipated, straining to achieve it - is doing the nation no favours at all.
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hellkat
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PostPosted: 00:05 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
Both NZ and Aus had those disgustingly graphic pictures of gangrenous mouth and scabby knobs on their fag packets at least ten years before the UK took up the practice.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 01:54 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
hellkat wrote:
Both NZ and Aus had those disgustingly graphic pictures of gangrenous mouth and scabby knobs on their fag packets at least ten years before the UK took up the practice.


One of the UK ones has a picture of an eye on it that I'm 95% certain is actually a dogs eye.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 13:36 - 10 Dec 2021    Post subject: Reply with quote
stinkwheel wrote:
One of the UK ones has a picture of an eye on it that I'm 95% certain is actually a dogs eye.


If you told people that smoking will make their dog blind it would probably be a more effective deterrent to be honest.
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