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2003 Varadero 125 running bad when hot

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Glades
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: 2003 Varadero 125 running bad when hot Reply with quote

So I've had this bike almost a year now but over the past few weeks its been developing an issue with spluttering after a few miles. I was serviced when I got it and I've been keeping up with maintenance. Just got it onto the stand to swap out some brake pads and noticed petrol dripping from the exhaust, a decent bit. I have no idea what it is, fuel/air should be right, idles at 1.5-2k at operating temp when its not having issues. Any advice or where I should start looking would be appreciated.

Its a 2003 Honda Varadero 125cc carbed Vtwin
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:17 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Petrol would not drip from the exhaust. Its probably water.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 19:39 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's old enough to have developed all manner of issues
so may need a wee bit of TLC to get it sorted

Moisture from the exhaust may just be condensation
or it may be a head gasket issue
I'd have a look in the header tank as it's running to see if there
are any signs like bubbles

I'd also check the plug colour
If they're sooty it may be running rich and start easy but get finicky as it warms up and so point to a carb problem

If it actually is petrol ( which we doubt) that's a serious failure of the fuel system and that much fuel in the cylinder would probably soak the plug and stop that cylinder running
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Glades
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Petrol would not drip from the exhaust. Its probably water.


Smells like petrol, burns like petrol. Its petrol.
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Glades
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PostPosted: 20:00 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:

If it actually is petrol ( which we doubt) that's a serious failure of the fuel system and that much fuel in the cylinder would probably soak the plug and stop that cylinder running



By the feel of it, it could absolutely be a cylinder not firing, Ill pull the plugs tomorrow and check for that soot. Ill try running it leaner too and see if that makes any difference. I replaced the battery not long ago when it was dropping charge so I'll just make sure the plugs are getting that power. Could it be an issue with one of the carbs not opening/closing?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glades wrote:


By the feel of it, it could absolutely be a cylinder not firing, Ill pull the plugs tomorrow and check for that soot. Ill try running it leaner too and see if that makes any difference. I replaced the battery not long ago when it was dropping charge so I'll just make sure the plugs are getting that power. Could it be an issue with one of the carbs not opening/closing?


99% of fuelling issues are electrical. Check for spark on both cylinders whilst it it splittering, preferably with a spare plug.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 21:48 - 15 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wouldn't mess about with mixture
you want the right stoichiometric value roughly 14:1
fiddling won't solve anything
You want to remove possible issues not add them

If one cylinder is flooding badly , I'd suspect something like a faulty float chamber valve not shutting off the flow
(maybe age hardened) or a float not err 'floating' properly.
At that age I'd hope to see an inline filter to keep crap out of the carbs.
Does it have a manual or auto choke?
check its function on both carbs either way.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 01:56 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Re: 2003 Varadero 125 running bad when hot Reply with quote

Glades wrote:
...its been developing an issue with spluttering after a few miles...noticed petrol dripping from the exhaust, a decent bit.

Ok, so first just to clear up any potential misunderstandings. When you say petrol is dripping from the exhaust, do you mean "petrol is coming out of the end of exhaust can from the inside" or do you mean "petrol is running from *somewhere* onto the outside of the exhaust and dripping off"? Or something else? Was the bike running while this was happening?

If it's the second option, could it be a sticky float valve on the carbs? Failing to close sometimes and coming out a badly routed/missing overflow (and so petrol on exhaust). And other times failing to keep the float chamber full enough (and causing spluttering)?
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Tdibs
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PostPosted: 04:36 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Does it drop to one cylinder after running for a while?

Replace HT lead/plug cap. Will explain dripping fuel out of exhaust but that is a extreme amount.

Also worth cleaning your plugs when fitting new leads - the bad lead cylinder will be rich as hell.

Other option is is a bad petcock/float - but this would likely be pooling fuel when the bike is off and making it very hard to start.

Video would help.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 09:20 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you've got petrol coming out of your exhaust the I'd recommend checking that you haven't got any in your engine oil as well as the plug/lead/coil checks...

Also, this made I chuckle somewhat...

WD Forte wrote:
you want the right stoichiometric value roughly 14:1
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 13:32 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Islander wrote:
If you've got petrol coming out of your exhaust the I'd recommend checking that you haven't got any in your engine oil as well as the plug/lead/coil checks...

Also, this made I chuckle somewhat...

WD Forte wrote:
you want the right stoichiometric value roughly 14:1


Thas yer modern science mate
Rigorous mathematical exactitude is like well rassis innit?
so we has to allow variations for culteral/gender differences.
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Glades
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PostPosted: 16:58 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Re: 2003 Varadero 125 running bad when hot Reply with quote

Zen Dog wrote:

Ok, so first just to clear up any potential misunderstandings. When you say petrol is dripping from the exhaust, do you mean "petrol is coming out of the end of exhaust can from the inside" or do you mean "petrol is running from *somewhere* onto the outside of the exhaust and dripping off"? Or something else? Was the bike running while this was happening?



The bike had been well ridden up until 5 mins prior, the petrol was dripping from inside the exhaust. I was hoping it was a crack in the tank or a fuel line but no hope.
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Glades
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PostPosted: 17:05 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tdibs wrote:
Does it drop to one cylinder after running for a while?

Replace HT lead/plug cap. Will explain dripping fuel out of exhaust but that is a extreme amount.

Also worth cleaning your plugs when fitting new leads - the bad lead cylinder will be rich as hell.

Other option is is a bad petcock/float - but this would likely be pooling fuel when the bike is off and making it very hard to start.

Video would help.


The bike is very hard to start once it is shut off but returns to its easy ignition one cold again. If we are assuming that its dropping a cylinder then yes, Id guess about 5 mins after getting to temp I can expect it to drop once I release the throttle, up to that point it works perfectly with full power.

Until I've sorted this somewhat, Im a bit doubtful of riding it so I wont be able to get a video til then. Hopefully at that point there wont be any issues
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Glades
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PostPosted: 17:13 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

WD Forte wrote:
I wouldn't mess about with mixture
you want the right stoichiometric value roughly 14:1
fiddling won't solve anything
You want to remove possible issues not add them

If one cylinder is flooding badly , I'd suspect something like a faulty float chamber valve not shutting off the flow
(maybe age hardened) or a float not err 'floating' properly.
At that age I'd hope to see an inline filter to keep crap out of the carbs.
Does it have a manual or auto choke?
check its function on both carbs either way.


I'm happy to work with direct injection but Im very unfamiliar with carburetors so Id like to try everything else before stripping and rebuilding them. It has no filters, Ive ordered an aftermarket one once I found out, should be here tomorrow.
Choke is manual but broke af, got it like that and I havnt had issues starting for almost a year until now, previous owner never had issues either.
Im starting to think i may be a carb issue which Im dreading as it isnt easy to get to them in the first place
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jaffa90
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PostPosted: 17:37 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

"""" Choke is manual but broke af, got it like that """"

It was serviced when i got it???

I`ve been keeping up with the maintenance ????

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 18:21 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't see.how it would work fine when cold but gash when hot when petrol is pissing out of the exhaust.
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Glades
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PostPosted: 19:02 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaffa90 wrote:
"""" Choke is manual but broke af, got it like that """"

It was serviced when i got it???

I`ve been keeping up with the maintenance ????

Shocked Shocked Shocked Shocked


There has been no need to fix it, dont fix what aint broke

...ok it is broke but engine works and has, choke isnt the problem
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Glades
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PostPosted: 19:09 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Can't see.how it would work fine when cold but gash when hot when petrol is pissing out of the exhaust.


This is why Im here because I have absolutely no idea either. Im no expert and I certainly don't claim to be.
My best guess from what I've gathered here is that one piston works fine as I've always got -some- power when I get on throttle but not as much as normal. Idle is weird when its like that but rarely dies so something is keeping it alive.

A question for anyone who knows carbs- does the needle jet shut off once the main jet begins working or do all three jets supply at the same time at full throttle?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:11 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Basically, there is no situation where it could work fine when cold,shit when hot and have so much fuel going into the exhaust that it runs out.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:30 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Custard test.
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WD Forte
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PostPosted: 21:00 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't guess, test.

Plug/s examination for starters

Whip em out, examine, note/ photograph
Clean, refit, run until it goes wonky then repeat

This will give you an idea of the mixture
If one plug is sooty brown and dry
and on side is sooty black and wet ( or just wet)
it will at least give you pointers.
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Glades
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PostPosted: 21:09 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Basically, there is no situation where it could work fine when cold,shit when hot and have so much fuel going into the exhaust that it runs out.


Sorry to ruin your dreams then
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:14 - 16 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Glades wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Basically, there is no situation where it could work fine when cold,shit when hot and have so much fuel going into the exhaust that it runs out.


Sorry to ruin your dreams then


What do you think would happen to petrol dripping into a hot exhaust?
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 04:48 - 17 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Basically, there is no situation where it could work fine when cold,shit when hot and have so much fuel going into the exhaust that it runs out.

How about maybe a broken choke? You know, the one that's broken af?
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Glades
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PostPosted: 17:10 - 17 Feb 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Basically, there is no situation where it could work fine when cold,shit when hot and have so much fuel going into the exhaust that it runs out.

How about maybe a broken choke? You know, the one that's broken af?


You seem to have missed the part where its been broken for not only the past year but a long time before that without issue.
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