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Leakdown Tester Recommendation UK

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Zen Dog
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Joined: 11 Aug 2004
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PostPosted: 11:47 - 25 Mar 2022    Post subject: Leakdown Tester Recommendation UK Reply with quote
In another thread someone suggested using a leakdown tester to check the compression on my VFR750.

I've been having a look around and OTC ones seem to be recommended, but I can only find them for sale in US. There are loads of cheap ones on ebay but they seem like typical chinese quality. Can anyone recommend a decent one for sale in the UK? The only real requirement is that it has a 10mm thread adapter to fit the VFR750 (most of the car ones don't have adapters that small).
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
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MCN
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PostPosted: 15:24 - 25 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Why a Leak Down Tester?

Why not a Compression Tester?

Asking for a British Freind.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 16:37 - 25 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
Why a Leak Down Tester?

Why not a Compression Tester?

Asking for a British Freind.


It's a wider test that tells you more essentially. And I have access to a compressor so why not? (And it's a new toy to play with...)

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00137
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
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MCN
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PostPosted: 20:55 - 25 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
MCN wrote:
Why a Leak Down Tester?

Why not a Compression Tester?

Asking for a British Freind.


It's a wider test that tells you more essentially. And I have access to a compressor so why not? (And it's a new toy to play with...)

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00137


A leak down test is still only a bit more than a Compression test.

If it's what I think it is it's pushing air into the engine and then listening for leakage of the air through the breather. (Ring/ Valve Guide wear)
And the inlet/exhaust system. (Valve wear).

Probably an exercise in futility as more than likely the engine needs to come out the frame for either to be remedied.

And once out we may as well do all of it.

On big engines there may be a saving where whipping the guts out of the beast is not necessary or for a cost-effective reason.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 17:46 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
Probably an exercise in futility as more than likely the engine needs to come out the frame for either to be remedied.


I'm not sure why you think it's futile, I'd rather find out in advance that I needed to take the engine out, than take the engine out and find out I didn't need to.

But it seems like no-one knows where to get them in the UK anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point either way.
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 18:20 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Which other thread?

That article seems to suggest that if there is a problem the compression tester would show something, and a leak down test can point to the source of a problem. Have you done a compression test?
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 19:23 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Which other thread?


It was this one - https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=333972

Tatters made the suggestion, but he's over in Canada if I remember correctly, so he might just have thought leakdown testers are easier to get hold of in the UK than they actually are.

And no I haven't done a compression test, because I don't have a compression tester either. That's why I thought getting a leakdown tester would be a good idea, since it tells you the same info as a compression tester (and more potentially) and it would be a useful addition to the toolkit.

But I'll just get a compression tester instead.
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
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MCN
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
MCN wrote:
Probably an exercise in futility as more than likely the engine needs to come out the frame for either to be remedied.


I'm not sure why you think it's futile, I'd rather find out in advance that I needed to take the engine out, than take the engine out and find out I didn't need to.

But it seems like no-one knows where to get them in the UK anyway, so it's a bit of a moot point either way.


Most bikes I've owned have had the wonderful design where the engine has to come out to whip the head off.

IMO, if an engine with poor compression need the rings replaced is more than likely needs the valves done too and or visa versa.

I would rather bite the bullet and do top and tail one time.

The hassle to hoi the engine out et al.

You can make a Leakdown tester.

If you have access to an air compressor with a tank.

Just blow air in the sparkplug hole and listen for escaping air from the inlet, exhaust and breather ports.

Turning the engine over to present valves for each condition for each cylinder.

It's a bit like pulling the sump off a knocking engine to drop main and 'big end' bearing caps to confirm crank damage. One would only do that after splitting the oil filter and looking for jewellery in there.

Whatever you find in the bearings is insignificant as the engine has to come out to pull the shaft.
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Zen Dog
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PostPosted: 20:13 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
MCN wrote:
IMO, if an engine with poor compression


How do you know it has poor compression without testing it?
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Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011
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MCN
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Zen Dog wrote:
MCN wrote:
IMO, if an engine with poor compression


How do you know it has poor compression without testing it?


With a Compression Tester.

There's more than one test using a compression tester too.

Do the first test dry. Record the result.

Do a second test after pouring a teaspoon of oil into the bore.

The oil seals any gaps in the rings and makes the compression appear better.

Its still a bit of a vague test without historical data to compare trends.
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tatters
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PostPosted: 21:10 - 28 Mar 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
My experience with compression testers vs leak down tester is that a leak down tester will give a much more accurate indication of top end wear and issues. Plus a lot of compression testers are inaccurate chinese junk. Though l will test with a compression tester first then carry out a leak down test to pin point the suspected issue.

Best analogy l heard of was that a compression tester is like a blood pressure cuff and a leak down tester is like a electrocardiogram.

When a leak down test is carried out the leak percentage is calculated (normally from 100 psi). No matter what air will leak out from the valves/piston 15-20 percent is acceptable any greater than that you then need to then listen for the following for a sizeable air leak.

Air leaking from intake - intake valves

Air leaking from exhaust - exhaust valves

Air leaking from cylinder head or into cooling system - head gasket

Air leaking from oil filler/crankcase - piston rings


I have the OTC tester which was about $150CAD

EDIT: This site gives a good explanation, l must came across it in the past long ago.

https://www.pegasusautoracing.com/document.asp?DocID=TECH00137
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Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650 Present:G650XC,C12,KZ750,1190ADV
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sickpup
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Joined: 21 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: 14:36 - 07 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've got one somewhere but god knows where.

Adaptors are easy to get, even Amazon have them.
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Fizzer Thou
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PostPosted: 15:31 - 07 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I own a SUN Diagnostic leak down tester and the number of times I have utilised the device I have quickly worked out the health of the engine.In all cases I was able to identify that the components requiring replacement were in the top end of the engine.On my Exup-R the piston rings were replaced and while the cylinder head was on the bench then all twenty valves were removed,lapped in and the valve guide seals replaced.I also cleaned up the ports,matching up the inlets to the manifold and removing sharp edges.

Once the work had been done I retested using the diagnostic tool and it was heaps better.Once I had run the engine for 500 miles I then retested and the engine was running to similar levels to a much newer version of the FZR1000R.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 09:30 - 28 Apr 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
https://youtu.be/DNKO_qI5b1M

The argument of what to work on still stands.
If getting to detected failed parts negates engine removal then time/cash may be saved.
Butt... The cost of parts versus the benefits in reliability and possibly performance outweighs the those costs.

If you need to take the bastirt out of the frame then do all of it. (Whether it needs it or not.)

Building in reliability is what good engineering practice dictates.

Based on time, cash, abilities.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 1 year, 363 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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