VFR750 - Rolling Resto

[Zen Dog]

So I've been mulling over for a while whether to sell the VFR750, or the VFR800. The 800 is brilliant, and everything works, but I have no real emotional connection to it. So the question really hinged on whether the 750, is saveable and restorable, by me. And I think it is. So I thought I'd chuck it on here.

THE BIKE
The bike is my 1994 VFR750FR. I've had it since 2005, and it's got 94000 miles on it. It's been used in all weathers and seasons, and at times, lived under a cover. It is very tired and tatty now, just all over, stem to stern. There's not a single unscratched fairing and most have at least one crack/repair. Engine and fork paint is mostly missing. But I still love the bike. It was my first big bike, pretty much every major event in my biking life has involved it, and it's never let me down. When I bought it, I made a deal with the bike that I wouldn't get rid of it until it blew up. The bike has held up its end of the bargain, and it's time for me to make good on my end of the deal. I actually found the post where I first mentioned the bike, back in the dusty archives of BCF - https://www.bikechatforums.com/viewtopic.php?p=573452&highlight=#573452

THE PROJECT
So the bike basically all works (a couple of exceptions being the temp gauge, which has never worked, and the digital clock, which died a couple of years ago), but it's badly in need of TLC/servicing in a load of areas. I'm not planning on stripping the bike to the frame and spending years sourcing NOS parts and all that nonsense. Bikes are for riding. So the initial plan is to get the bike back to an acceptable level of functionality as the first goal. And then then ongoing plan is to start actively improving it.

INITIAL ASSESSMENT
I actually did this a week or so ago. After being neglected for the best part of a year in the back of the garage, the first question was "Does it actually start?". This bike has amazingly always managed to start after being abandoned over the winter, but each year it gets a bit more reluctant. This time I drained the tired battery on the bike without it starting, but after a clean airfilter and a decent battery had been added... - https://imgur.com/a/ypCWA3K
I let it run for a few minutes after this, and it was running on all 4 cylinders again. That's plenty as a starting point for me, so the fairings have been stripped, it's been given a jetwash to get the worst of the crap (and a substantial proportion of the paint in some areas) off, and I've got a list of things that need to be done (in approximate order) before I ride it -

FIRST JOBS
Front brakes - They're binding really badly. This is going to be the first job, simply because it'll make moving the bike around easier in the garage. But I've serviced the brakes a load of times before so I'm pretty confident I can sort them in fairly short order.
Bike Lift - My brother has a full sized bike lift in storage. I'm hoping to get this out and setup because it's definitely going to help my back. It does take up more space than you'd think though, even when flat, which is why it's not in the garage already, but it'll be worth it for this.
Valve Clearances. This is the major one, from my perspective. I've never done it, but it's well overdue at this point. I'm really hoping they're all within tolerance, but I think that's unlikely to be the case at this mileage. If they're really wildly out it may indicate issues with the valves (and taking the head off is not something I think I'm up to), but if it's shimmable I'm committed to having a go. I want to get this done early in the process because if there's something seriously wrong it's one of the few reasons I'd consider abandoning the project, and if I mess it up and screw up the engine, at least I've not spent loads of money for nothing.
General Service - Air Filter is done already, but new Oil, Oil Filter, Fuel Filter and Plugs. Need to top up the coolant too.
New Battery - Existing one is tired. I also managed to lose one of the square battery terminal nut things. I can buy them online (but only seemingly from China), but do new batteries come with them? I can't remember.
Balance Carbs - Might as well while I'm doing the rest of it.
Check Compression - Ditto.
Rear Wheel Paint - This doesn't need to be done for this stage, but if it takes a couple of weeks while I'm doing the clearances/ordering shims, I figure I might as well get it done out of the way. And oh lordy, does it need doing.

https://i.imgur.com/WHB3K27.jpg

LATER ONGOING WORK
Once those are done, I can get back to riding it. But because I've got the Striple to ride, I can afford to take the 750 off the road for some time if needed to work on the following -

Front End - The fork tubes are badly pitted (though not on the swept area, and they aren't leaking), the fork lowers have lost most of their paint, and the front suspension is definitely overdue a service. Still undecided if I'm going to stick with the standard front end, or upgrade to a Firestorm front end for the better brakes. It'll probably be some time to gather all the bits either way.
Rear Shock - It's got a Hagon shock on it at the moment, it's only a couple of years old, and it looks horrific, the spring has lost almost all its paint, and both it and the shock body are rusting badly. It's not actually leaking though as far as I can tell. I'll probably replace it with a nice Nitron shock when the time comes.
Fairings - They're all there, but they've been repaired multiple times, and there's missing tabs, a loose indicator, and any number of gouges and scratches. Second hand panels are crazy money. There are only a couple of options for new replacements, and one is in the US and the other is in France (Poly 26, they have a UK distributor apparently but they don't even mention on their site that they are one, which is never a good sign). Since the new ones are basically race fairings and I'd have to make tabs/mountings for the indicators etc. anyway, I figure I might as well try to repair the existing ones, but unlike previous attempts actually take my time and try to do a decent job this time round. Will involve considerably improving my glassfibre/filler sculpting skills.
Temp Gauge/Clock - Would be nice to get these working as a visible improvement to the bike. Clock has leaked its fluid internally, so that will need to be replaced if possible. Temp gauge is possibly the sensor or the connection which should be easy enough, but I have a vague memory that the actual problem is corrosion on the circuit board on the back of the dash, so that may need replacement/repair.
Road Legal Exhaust Can - I really wanted a high level can, and when I bought this, I just couldn't afford a road legal one even second hand. Out on the road, I love the sound, but it doesn't make me popular with the neighbours. I like the sound of even the standard can, and it would be nice to be able to start the bike late at night without pissing everyone off.

Anyway, think that's plenty to say for now, before I start getting accused of being a sock for the secret return of Teffers.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[Robby]

I look forward to watch you tumble down the restoration rabbit hole and abandon all of your initial principles.

Some things I have found when doing restorations.

- Avoid the temptation to replace nuts and bolts, particularly with shiny stainless stuff. Cheap stainless is shit and snaps, and expensive stainless is often the same thing, but costs more.

- Expect to replace all of the bushes, bearings and seals in the chassis. Some will be extremely knackered (like shock linkage), some will be a bit knackered (like headstock bearings) and some may be fine, but it's hard to tell, and they can get damaged when disturbed (any plastic/nylon bush).

- If you're sending stuff out for powder coating, it's better to send out all the bits that might need coating. I have never managed this, but I did managed to keep it down to two runs last time.

- If you're anything like me, then home spray painting is a way to spend an awful amount of time and money to achieve only a reasonable finish that isn't very durable. It's one of very jobs that I always intend to farm out (then don't, then regret it and promise to get it done by a pro next time).

- Finally, any parts that are still just about working now (like fork seals) will probably give up by the end of the project, after spending a year or more sitting.

[Easy-X]

Definitely get the bike lift going, makes things so much easier.

All the batteries I've bought recently came with bolts and the square nuts so don't fret on that.
____________________
Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[tatters]

[Ayrton]

Are the fairings ABS? I've had really good results fixing abs fairing with acetone like in this video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2YIV0XVkkPE

Also worth changing the fork oil if it hasn't been done in a while. Seems to be something people overlook.

[Zen Dog]

[Honda434]

I think you have the right idea not taking it all the way down at once. You have a list that keeps it looking like a bike as you peck away at it and doing the cosmetics last. If you decide half way through you don’t want to finish at least it’s still all together. It will be a nice project to watch your progress.
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Honda434

[Ayrton]

[stinkwheel]

I confidently predict the valve clearances will all be within tolerance.

VTR firestorm forks, callipers and mudguard are a bolt-in (you need the spindle and spacers too). 4-pot nissans.

Check the price of a good used rear wheel. May be less than a strip and powdercoat.

Also clean the clutch pushrod.

Check the condition of the fuel pump points.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Zen Dog]

Front Brakes - COMPLETED

Well I haven't done a lot this week, I had to do a few other jobs, and the VFR800 went over in the wind (foot peg and mirror on order), but it's important to feel like I'm making some progress so I got in the garage yesterday and did the front brakes. I suspect what I really need to do to sort them properly is get the pistons out, clear any alloy furring behind the rubber seals and replace seals and pistons if needed, but I'll do that when I sort the front end properly. For now, this video is deeply unimpressive, but given that I could barely move the front wheel by hand before, much better, and certainly good enough for now. https://i.imgur.com/yj4sC55.mp4

I should probably mention, in case it's of any use to anyone, my aftermarket discs. At the time I bought them, I wanted EBC, and I was totally against the idea of buying chinese when it comes to something as critical as braking. But I just didn't have the money. So I ended up doing a load of reading and came across these guys Arashi, a few people had mentioned them in different forums as actually being good quality. So I took a punt, and honestly, they've been absolutely faultless for years now. Definitely recommend them as a cheaper alternative if you're not bothered that they're wavy rather than an OEM look.

Bit stuck on the next stage, getting the bike stand out. I don't have direct access to where it's stored, or the van needed to move it, I'm waiting on others for both. Hopefully it'll be this week. In the meantime I've ordered some acetone and some ABS sheets after Ayrton's suggestion, so I can have a play around with those, and I can replace the mirror and footpeg on the 800 when they arrive. Feeler gauges, rubber hammer (already been useful for getting the brake calipers off) and gasket sealant have arrived for doing the valve clearances.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[Zen Dog]

Figured it was time for an update. Progress has been glacial (and is probably going to remain so), so if you want action, go visit Stinkwheel's thread. But -

Bike Lift - COMPLETED
Compression Check - FAILED

So after discussion in another thread, I bought a cheap leakdown tester off eBay, and well... don't bother. I should have just ordered an OTC one from the States. It's possible I'm using it wrong, but following the instructions, setting the dial to zero after each reading, and without making any changes to the engine at all, I'm getting wildly different readings.

I can see how it could be really useful though, I could clearly hear the air coming through the exhaust valves and out the exhaust when the engine wasn't at TDC for example. I think I'll order a decent one, but in the meantime I'm just going to do the valve clearances.

If anyone has an explanation for the below readings, or at least one that isn't "the valve on the leakdown tester is a piece of crap, which is why you're having to reset the zero after every reading" which is my current theory, I'm all ears. I took each reading 8 times, all at TDC on the compression stroke (leakage was measuring about 70% with the valves open at other positions). The engine was cold (necessarily, as the bike is in bits) but there seems to be conflicting advice online about how much this matters. And again, I didn't make any changes to the engine (or even the pipe screwed into the spark plug hole) in between readings. All measurements in % leakage.

Cylinder 1
33 35 15 13 37 14 38 16

Cylinder 2
37 15 35 15 30 14 35 15

Cylinder 3
40 17 41 23 23 23 23 22

Cylinder 4
15 30 35 13 35 13 35 15

On the one hand, I probably shouldn't read anything into readings that are so obviously inaccurate, but I am slightly heartened that all the readings appear to be within the "kind of acceptable" range, from some sources at least. And the engine is cold so it should be slightly better when warm. But I'm just going to do the clearances anyway and we'll see.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[stinkwheel]

I genuinely wouldn't be worrying about the engine on a VFR750 unless it's done like 150k miles. You're more likely to break something looking for a problem than for there to actually be a problem.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Zen Dog]

[Zen Dog]

Valve Clearance Check - COMPLETED

So I finally got into it today... and I'm glad I checked. I ended up using these couple of vids, which completely cover the whole process really.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=joATNfEe54o
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkOSSVhSOD4

Intake Valves should be 0.16mm +/- 0.03 (so between 0.13-0.19mm)
Exhaust Valves should be 0.25 +/- 0.03 (so between 0.22-0.28)

Cylinder 1
Bang on, all within tolerance. I was feeling pretty hopeful after doing that one.
Cylinder 2
A couple of the valves are at the max end of the acceptable range, which I'd live with. But the left intake valve is at 0.23.
Cylinder 3
The intake valves are fine. But both the exhaust valve clearances are too large, measuring 0.30.
Cylinder 4
The exhaust valves are at max, but within tolerance. But the right intake valve is at 0.21.

So 3 of the 4 cylinders are in need of some adjustment. That's really not the news I was planning on. If they were all at max, or only out by a tiny amount, I'd just leave it, but the left intake on Cyl2 is out by 0.04, which is too large by more than double the tolerance. I need to do it really. And if I'm doing that anyway, I need to do the exhaust valves for Cyl3 and the intake valve for Cyl4. I think I'll resist the urge to adjust all the ones at the max end of their tolerance though. So I think the next job, if I understand the process correctly, is -
1. Get the cams out for the valves that need adjusting.
2. Take the buckets(?) out to get to the shims underneath.
3. Make a note of the current shim size.
4. Calculate (how much bigger in this case) the shim size needed to get them back within tolerance.
5. Order shims.

I think I'll have to put the cams back in after noting the shim sizes, just to reduce the chance of me forgetting where everything goes. I'll then have to take it all apart again when I get the shims, which is a pain. I could try to find a clean box to store the cams, but the chances of me making a cock up are already skyrocketing, I need to minimise it where possible. I'm already feeling very glad I'm fortunate enough to have other bikes to ride while I do slow motion resuscitation attempts on this 750.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[stinkwheel]

I have a partitioned tray for doing this job. The sort of thing you get nut and bolt assortments in would do the trick.

Make a list of what you need and what you have, you'll probably find you can rearrange things and only need to order a couple.

Treat the numbers on shims with skepticism, measure them with a micrometer.

EDIT. An egg box per cylinder would probably make a good shimming tray.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[tatters]

Nothing unusual as I seen this myself on some other bikes but you would normally expect that a shim under bucket valves would have decrease clearances over time as the valves wear the valve seats not increased clearances from what l would presumed is bucket/cam lobe wear.

Very hard wearing valve seats??
____________________
Past:NRG50,AF1125(x2),NSR125RR,ZZR250,CX500,VFR400,KR1S,ZZR600(x2),CB400N,YZF1000(x2),KH125,Z200,FX400R,CBR954RR(x2)GPZ500S,GT550,VFR750F(x2),RD350N,XR650R,CBR600F,CB250,KDX250,YZF750R,CRM250,400EXC,KLR650,TTR600RE,DR350S,R100GSPD,RGV250,VMAX1200,DL650,KZ750 Present:G650XC,C12,CRF450X,1190ADV

[Zen Dog]

[Zen Dog]

So just a quick update on this. I actually ended up remeasuring 3 times. First I measured them (as posted above), then I took the cams out and measured all the shims. Then I remeasured the valve clearances because I felt like I had a better idea what I was doing. Then I realised I still didn't know what I was doing. So I ordered a micrometer so I could set it and use the feeler gauges on it so that I actually know what it feels like when it's bang on a particular gauge.

And finally, I remeasured them again.

Technically I got different results each time (and I did rotate the engine multiple times by hand to get everything "settled" after taking the cams out). But I've averaged the results and learned a fair bit, and come to the conclusion that I only actually need to change 1 shim. Ordered it today, along with a new battery, oil and filters. Progress is occurring slowly.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[sickpup]

[Zen Dog]

[to v or not to v]

has the shim turned up yet?
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[Zen Dog]

Valve Clearances and Shims - COMPLETED
General Service - new Oil, Oil Filter, Fuel Filter and Plugs. Topped up coolant. COMPLETED
New Battery - COMPLETED

Well, I got the shim and did the work. Cam out, shim replaced, back together, clearance remeasured, 3m instant gasket stuff on the covers. Gave it 24 hours, then give the bike a general service. Got the tank back on and fitted the new battery. Cranked it a few times with the fuel off to listen for any bad noises. All good.

Moment of truth. I was crapping myself, not going to lie. I knew it wouldn't just start, the fuel system was all empty, so I wasn't entirely surprised when - https://i.imgur.com/q9kw74z.mp4

That was with only a sniff of choke, and a moment later, full choke. - https://i.imgur.com/hVGrLM5.mp4

Once it had warmed up a little (still needed a hint of choke really), a little rev. - https://i.imgur.com/uOiOFgV.mp4

Sounds crappy on the phone, but glorious in person. I know the sound of this bike when it's running right intimately. And it sounds right. I'm made up. I could just slap the fairings back on and take it for an MOT at this point, but I think I'm going to have a look at the cooling system first. The fins on the radiator are really badly smooshed. So badly a lot of them you couldn't even straighten with a tiny screwdriver if you wanted to. I think I need a replacement. And while letting it warm up, I realised I don't really have any way of telling that it's up to temperature, other than no longer needing choke. I never have, the temp gauge on this bike has never worked. I've always just assumed it's fine. But now I have to assume the cooling is inefficient at the moment, and I want to know when it's working better. So I need to get the upper fairing apart so I can get to the back of the dash and start testing the temp sensor, get a decent used radiator, and get the rear wheel off for painting/powdercoating. Might be a good time to balance the carbs too.

Progress officially made.
____________________
Current - '94 VFR750FR, '00 VFR800FI Previous - '10 Street Triple R, '92 MZ ETZ301, '05 TTR250, NSR125R, KMX125, "Honda" Win (chinese copy of an old Honda design with a C90 engine)
My bike trip around S.E. Asia 2010/2011

[Easy-X]

FYI if you take this:

[to v or not to v]

well done, excellent result
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[Zen Dog]