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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:12 - 03 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


Actually, it shows how bad the security industry has got it wrong. You have to cater for people and your industry hasn't got a foggiest how to manage the balance between security and easibility.


Actually security as an enabler has been the industry watchword for a number of years. If that wasn't the case then users would tend to try to evade the controls rather than working with them and we certainly wouldn't get the support from management that we do.

You can't base an assumption about the entire security industry on the basis of your own poor experience and company culture which really isn't typical today. Smile
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Skudd
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PostPosted: 19:52 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Chicken thighs, what is the point of them?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 20:03 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Chicken thighs, what is the point of them?


They help chickens with mobility.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 20:18 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Chicken thighs, what is the point of them?


quite like them myself. prefer them to drum sticks.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Skudd wrote:
Chicken thighs, what is the point of them?


More flavour than the breast and cheaper. Of you know how to cook that is.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:20 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
to v or not to v wrote:
Skudd wrote:
Chicken thighs, what is the point of them?


quite like them myself. prefer them to drum sticks.


I thought they were part of drumsticks? The fat bit. Laughing
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Polarbear wrote:


I thought they were part of drumsticks? The fat bit. Laughing


Nah, it's the next bit up, from the knee to the hip. You're maybe thinking of chicken legs which is a thigh and drumstick together.

The thigh is the fattier and therefore tastier meat. Tastier and cheaper than the breast and where the smart money is when buying chicken portions. Wing is pretty tasty too and even cheaper but more hassle to eat.
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Bhud
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PostPosted: 23:30 - 04 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Young people. Young people get my goat. Why? Well, how about this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gohSeOYheXg

Cycling in London isn't "normal"? Well, you could have fooled me. It looks like the entirety of London is devoted towards the needs of cyclists. Plus, the needless haranguing and mockery of the working class - their accents, their dress and absolutely everything about them... How is that acceptable? This guy just waltzes on the scene with a long coat and pisses on everyone "below" him? What the heck?

That isn't to say that people my age are any better. I mean, if you persist in the way of fitness and feel righteous about it, wear lycra, etc. you end up like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bIywCGuN4Cg

How are your Amazon and Ebay deliveries supposed to magically appear at your doorstep without diesel or petrol?

These people are the worst. They discover the truth ("nothing is true - everything is permitted") but when they hit 50 they decide to not share this with anyone, but rather their diet/exercise plan (minus the drugs), and to create an alternative means of income for themselves, at the expense of normal people. They are dickheads. Guy is 50 years old - he feels that he's discovered the secret of life ("don't be honest") and sells a positivity/feel-good programme whereby he's paid by Youtube, in order that he can afford to be 80 years old. I mean - diabetes, heart disease, etc. I don't know what's wrong with these people. Old age hits a lot of people hard. What are you gonna do if you're fucking 80, and diabetes is calling, and you need to get your leg chopped off? Ride a bike??!

I have a complaint about these people. If I were to sum it up it would be: "don't trust anyone in their 40s" or likewise. How are you supposed to get an electrician to rewire your house, or a gas engineer to fix your boiler, if you just stop all access to diesel-powered transport? So much bullshit. Just cycle on a machine until you're 96, and if you've got a Youtube channel, you'll be able to afford the maintenance/repair bills. What a load of BS
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Hong Kong Phooey
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Joined: 30 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 00:19 - 05 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Ste wrote:
Passphrases are easier to remember than passwords.

Dice ware makes nice passphrases. https://diceware.dmuth.org/


Exactly. Thumbs Up


No use, you have to have upper/lowercase, numbers, symbols, not repeat, not have one on the internet already, have one that's sufficiently different from username/DOB etc.

Everybody just wants a nice simple BigDonkeyDick, but has to settle for B1gD0nkeyD!(k_007 which can't be commited to memory as easily. So when they manage to remember the secret spell of entry by wrote, the same damn thing gets reused everywhere.

This is a realised problem, by making passwords fit a pattern, you're reducing the number of possible combinations too.
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struan80
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PostPosted: 01:02 - 05 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
The way I do it is just to keep myself skint and not worry whether someone wants to pick up my overdraft.

I use a similar password, but not quite to my old Royal Nave number. d201764c, will never forget it.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 05 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Everybody just wants a nice simple BigDonkeyDick, but has to settle for B1gD0nkeyD!(k_007 which can't be commited to memory as easily.

So, BigDonkeyDick9! then? Pretty easy...
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 16:52 - 05 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Reminds me of a Spiffing Brit video recently, he named his game character Drew P. Schlong Smile
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Islander
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 05 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:

No use, you have to have upper/lowercase, numbers, symbols, not repeat, not have one on the internet already, have one that's sufficiently different from username/DOB etc.


Oh you mean you need decent password security?

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Everybody just wants a nice simple BigDonkeyDick, but has to settle for B1gD0nkeyD!(k_007 which can't be commited to memory as easily. So when they manage to remember the secret spell of entry by wrote, the same damn thing gets reused everywhere.


Not everyone, just people that are either lazy, incompetent or utterly fail to understand the basics.

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
This is a realised problem, by making passwords fit a pattern, you're reducing the number of possible combinations too.


Eh? How does that even work? By using a passphrase, you increase the entropy significantly such that any brute force method just isn't worth trying.

Oh, unless you're either lazy, incompetent or utterly fail to understand the basics... Laughing
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Robby
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Joined: 16 May 2002
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PostPosted: 19:25 - 05 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:


Oh, unless you're either lazy, incompetent or utterly fail to understand the basics... Laughing


He may be the trifecta.

If anyone reading this is still using one password for everything and uses chrome, just let google handle passwords for you. You only need to remember the password to your google account, let it suggest and store unique, strong passwords everything else.

And no, google is not going to get hacked. It's ok to write down the password to your google account and keep it in your desk drawer, the only people who are going to find that are people who already have access to your desk drawer.

You are not as much of an attractive target to dedicated criminals as you think, but if you use a single password for everything you're very attractive to automated attacks.

And if your password for BCF is the same as your password for your bank, change it now.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 00:48 - 06 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Worth noting you can get two factor authentication for a Google account. It kicks in for ever new device you try to connect after that you just need the password.
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Hong Kong Phooey
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Joined: 30 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 09:51 - 06 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
This is a realised problem, by making passwords fit a pattern, you're reducing the number of possible combinations too.


Eh? How does that even work? By using a passphrase, you increase the entropy significantly such that any brute force method just isn't worth trying.

Oh, unless you're either lazy, incompetent or utterly fail to understand the basics... Laughing


They did the math(s).
https://www.starlab.io/blog/why-enforced-password-complexity-is-worse-for-security-and-what-to-do-about-it
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Islander
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PostPosted: 13:02 - 06 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Islander wrote:


Eh? How does that even work? By using a passphrase, you increase the entropy significantly such that any brute force method just isn't worth trying.

Oh, unless you're either lazy, incompetent or utterly fail to understand the basics... Laughing


They did the math(s).
https://www.starlab.io/blog/why-enforced-password-complexity-is-worse-for-security-and-what-to-do-about-it


So you're trying to meet all three of the categories I posited then Laughing

Go back and read through what I and others have been saying but this time read it properly and leave your preconceptions behind.

Who knows, you may even learn something useful Wink

Oh and when you've read back, have a read through this:

https://www.ncsc.gov.uk/collection/passwords/updating-your-approach

Did you spot the similarities to my and others' approach? Laughing
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Hong Kong Phooey
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PostPosted: 15:01 - 07 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Not all of my internet rants are directed at you Laughing

I agree with passwords that can't easily be guessed. And the place I work has a good balance of usability and security.

My point is, make passwords too complicated for humans to remember, (e.g. enforce upper, lower, numerical, symbol, over 12 chars, under 32 etc) and they just get written down. Stupidly complicated rules make password security worse. All becomes pointless when pw recovery, to an email address with PASSWORD1 as the password is a possibility.

Enforcing many rules on a system makes it less random, arbitrary complexity reduces the search space, and who in their right mind configures a system to allow 100+ attempts from one ip address, or 10+ on an account before locking it out? So the overly complex enforced rules just pisses people off and adds little to security.

With 2FA enabled, I should be allowed to use Password1. I WOULDN'T THOUGH.

Anyhow the password should just die, but logging in on a TV one minute then a phone, PC, means it's going to linger on. And each service provider enforcing their own interpretation of a secure and acceptable password format is just annoying.

And as for password managers, don't forget some have been hacked previously. If you are using one, recommend you manually salt each entry when typing it in (add another secret password to the start and/or end of the stored one).
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Islander
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PostPosted: 19:37 - 07 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Not all of my internet rants are directed at you Laughing

I agree with passwords that can't easily be guessed. And the place I work has a good balance of usability and security.


That's what competent security management should be aiming for. Thumbs Up

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
My point is, make passwords too complicated for humans to remember, (e.g. enforce upper, lower, numerical, symbol, over 12 chars, under 32 etc) and they just get written down. Stupidly complicated rules make password security worse. All becomes pointless when pw recovery, to an email address with PASSWORD1 as the password is a possibility.


And that's the epitome of poor security management. Good guidance should be to make your passwords memorable to you but not easily guessable by others. It's not difficult to do even with some complexity. I've been doing this with our staff for years and support don't get many password reset requests on the helpdesk. The ones they do get are usually from people that have been away from work for an extended period

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Enforcing many rules on a system makes it less random, arbitrary complexity reduces the search space, and who in their right mind configures a system to allow 100+ attempts from one ip address, or 10+ on an account before locking it out? So the overly complex enforced rules just pisses people off and adds little to security.


A good system needs:

Password history set to decent number. 12 minimum, 24 preferable.
Failed attempts lockout set to a low number. I specify 5.
Decent password length. We set a minimum of 10 for users, 18 for privileged accounts.
Some complexity. I specify a minimum of one upper case character, one number and a special character on systems that can handle it.
A reasonable change period. Not ridiculously short - that just pisses people off and rightly so.
A decent password filter to stop common guessable passwords being set.

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
With 2FA enabled, I should be allowed to use Password1. I WOULDN'T THOUGH.


No you shouldn't be allowed to use stupidly weak passwords - see my last point above. MFA is useful and stops credential stuffing attacks in their tracks. However, no system should be considered infallible in and of itself - defence in depth is an important feature of good security management.

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
Anyhow the password should just die, but logging in on a TV one minute then a phone, PC, means it's going to linger on. And each service provider enforcing their own interpretation of a secure and acceptable password format is just annoying.


I agree. Microsoft employees don't use passwords. They have sophisticated biometrics and a sensible approach to MFA. It'll come to all systems eventually. Thumbs Up

Hong Kong Phooey wrote:
And as for password managers, don't forget some have been hacked previously. If you are using one, recommend you manually salt each entry when typing it in (add another secret password to the start and/or end of the stored one).


Password managers are like any other software. They need patching and updating. You don't need to go to any special lengths with encryption methods just set auto update or check regularly for updates if the software doesn't do automatic.

I recommend Keepass to our staff and had our IT folk make it available from our corporate app store. It's free, if you use a central database on a cloud drive them you can access that from Android, IOS, Windows, Linux and MacOS - there are versions for each of those, and it's very good.

Of course you do need to set a decent entropy password for any password manager but that's just a case of remembering one password to gain access to all.
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to v or not to v
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 07 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
people waffling on about passwords!
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 07 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
to v or not to v wrote:
people waffling on about passwords!


Safewords are much more important Wink
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Ste
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PostPosted: 21:27 - 07 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
My safeword is pineapple.
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Islander
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PostPosted: 22:03 - 07 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ste wrote:
My safeword is pineapple.


Spiky end first no doubt.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:05 - 08 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
I've just had a large black woman stick her finger up my bum Crying or Very sad
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 15:49 - 08 Jun 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
I've just had a large black woman stick her finger up my bum Crying or Very sad


Laud the diversity. The last time I had a white man do it. I didn't mind that too much, it was the 'thanks ducky' afterwards that worried me.
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