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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 17:09 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

stinkwheel wrote:
Confirms that London is a waste of space and not worth the effort to visit.

I shall continue my boycott of the place.

It will eventually disappear up its own arse/under Thames.


Just come back from a job in the City - nice day for a ride BTW - and the bossman was muttering about the Internet. Hardly any fibre in town and the power goes out regularly Neutral
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grr666
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PostPosted: 18:02 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:

Might be joining you there, managed to accidentally perforate my own eardrum with a cotton bud today...

Well this is still thoroughly unpleasant. Went to quacks today so they could take a look and give me some advise and
fancy that, can't get an appointment. Perhaps if I'd arrived by dinghy and never paid a penny into the system my whole
life I might have a chance of being seen. I'm getting pig fucking sick of the NHS. Browsing private healthcare plans now.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="grr666"]
grr666 wrote:

Well this is still thoroughly unpleasant. Went to quacks today so they could take a look and give me some advise and
fancy that, can't get an appointment. Perhaps if I'd arrived by dinghy and never paid a penny into the system my whole
life I might have a chance of being seen. I'm getting pig fucking sick of the NHS. Browsing private healthcare plans now.


Your meant to get sick of it then they can sell you health insurance while out the back flogging off the NHS to 'murican health insurance companies.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 18:48 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
I'm getting pig fucking sick of the NHS.


Are they still going? I thought the NHS would have closed down by now. And there are folks who think it's going to get sold off to the Yanks...who would buy (what's left of) it? Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 20:40 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

chickenstrip wrote:


Are they still going? I thought the NHS would have closed down by now. And there are folks who think it's going to get sold off to the Yanks...who would buy (what's left of) it? Laughing


You build your private hospital over the road from the NHS one then offer the NHS workers the same jobs but for a few percent more but 8 hour shift patterns. Que a flock of angels flitting across the street. At the same time punt out initially affordable private healthcare packages to the middle class and watch the ball roll down the street. Then you retire from politics and take a nice fat reward of a golden handshake onto the health insurance companies board of directors. Katching!
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Ste
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PostPosted: 20:57 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
Que a flock of angels flitting across the street.

https://i.imgur.com/sERlls7.jpg

Wink

Private healthcare such as what you describe is not the same as privatisation of the NHS.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:22 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
chickenstrip wrote:


Are they still going? I thought the NHS would have closed down by now. And there are folks who think it's going to get sold off to the Yanks...who would buy (what's left of) it? Laughing


You build your private hospital over the road from the NHS one then offer the NHS workers the same jobs but for a few percent more but 8 hour shift patterns. Que a flock of angels flitting across the street. At the same time punt out initially affordable private healthcare packages to the middle class and watch the ball roll down the street. Then you retire from politics and take a nice fat reward of a golden handshake onto the health insurance companies board of directors. Katching!

I don’t think the NHS does itself any favours with the annual “Winter crisis” forecasts which they always get through. It seems like a cry for attention. Just yesterday I was chatting to a friend who had taken redundancy from a pharmaceutical company and is training to become a midwife. Her private-sector experience made the inefficiencies in the NHS utterly transparent but it seems nobody in authority has the experience or the nous to fix it. Too many ‘professional’ managers with no idea.

Even I, a staunch supporter of the NHS ideal am beginning to wonder whether it needs real world, public sector expertise. Let’s face it, the current crop of politicians wouldn’t keep a job in the real world, they’re hopeless, and so are the NHS managers they put in place.

On the other hand private sector health services might look shady if they were obliged to run A&E, maternity and cancer care.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 21:34 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

And who puts these managers in charge? It all looks like its deliberately being managed into the ground. It is a management and human resources problem though, visit any NHS facility and its always the latest kit, even the bloody fans are Dyson ones. The NHS looks like a fattened calf.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 21:46 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

The hand driers would have been chosen with an eye to clinical need.

You could just have paper towels, but then there's an overhead of clinical waste to dispose of and what happens if they run out?
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 22:25 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
The hand driers would have been chosen with an eye to clinical need.

You could just have paper towels, but then there's an overhead of clinical waste to dispose of and what happens if they run out?


They've got hand driers, not paper towels? Well, there's a sure sign of a perfectly functional health service Laughing
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grr666
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:

Even I, a staunch supporter of the NHS ideal am beginning to wonder whether it needs real world, public sector expertise.

All I know is I have blood coming out of my ear, if that doesn't qualify for an examination by the GP that's supposed
to be responsible for my medical care then I don't know what does. Don't get me started on the hatchet faced nearly
always female receptionists who seem to have a brief to turn away as many male patients as possible. And they wonder
why men don't take more care of their health and only see a doctor when there's no other option. When I joined that
surgery I asked if they ran a well man clinic, you know the type of thing like an annual MOT for middle aged men,
prevention being better than cure being the motivation. Weight checks, blood pressure checks and blood tests,
prostate examinations and that kind of thing. The miserable cow behind the desk looked at me like I was from outer
space for even asking about such a thing. Yet all around were posters for smear tests, breast examinations even coffee
mornings for lonely women. Absolutely F all for men. It's a disgrace. You should be able to reduce your NI contributions
if you have been frustrated into paying for a private plan to get a basic standard of healthcare. What have I been paying in
for all these years for exactly? To keep other people healthy (or permanently on the sick) while I'm ignored would seem
to be the case.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Germany runs pretty well on a health system that involves a lot of private companies.

As far as I can see the NHS is a money pit that has sh1t management. Public owned companies always seem to have sh1t management. Probably people who couldn't hack it in the private sector.

The other thing that puzzles me is the 'NO, NOT PRIVATE' screams from whoever. As long as it stays free at point of help, what does it matter what system runs it? The more efficient the better surely. Just like the German system, use private where it can improve what we have rather than just chucking more and more money at it.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I had blood running out of my ear I'd be in A&E and not booking a GP appointment.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:48 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
The other thing that puzzles me is the 'NO, NOT PRIVATE' screams from whoever. As long as it stays free at point of help, what does it matter what system runs it? The more efficient the better surely. Just like the German system, use private where it can improve what we have rather than just chucking more and more money at it.


Efficient is good. Paying a profit margin is bad. If they are making a profit then the people they employ aren't getting a pension.
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Polarbear
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PostPosted: 22:53 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Polarbear wrote:
The other thing that puzzles me is the 'NO, NOT PRIVATE' screams from whoever. As long as it stays free at point of help, what does it matter what system runs it? The more efficient the better surely. Just like the German system, use private where it can improve what we have rather than just chucking more and more money at it.


Efficient is good. Paying a profit margin is bad. If they are making a profit then the people they employ aren't getting a pension.


I get your arguement. I just do not understand how public sector managers can be so bad. I would bet a pound to a pinch of sh1t the private sector would get the NHS way more efficient. However it doesn't matter as it will never happen because NHS.
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grr666
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PostPosted: 23:48 - 11 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If I had blood running out of my ear I'd be in A&E and not booking a GP appointment.

It only seems to happen when I'm in bed, I'm more alarmed by the slight hearing loss, my left ear is ringing like it
does immediately after coming out from a really loud gig. I don't even know where my nearest A&E is? I just want
someone who knows what they are looking at to take a quick look in there, (which is what the NHS website suggests)

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/perforated-eardrum/

Quote:
A perforated or burst eardrum is a hole in the eardrum. It'll usually heal within a few weeks and might not need any treatment.

But it's a good idea to see a GP if you think your eardrum has burst, as it can cause problems such as ear infections.

Symptoms of a perforated eardrum
Signs of a perforated eardrum, or an ear infection caused by a perforated eardrum, include:

sudden hearing loss – you may find it difficult to hear anything or your hearing may just be slightly muffled
earache or pain in your ear
itching in your ear
fluid leaking from your ear
a high temperature
ringing or buzzing in your ear (tinnitus)
The symptoms will usually pass once your eardrum has healed or any infection has been treated.

When to see a GP
See a GP if:


you think you have a perforated eardrum
you have already seen a GP and your symptoms are not any better after a few weeks or you get new symptoms (such as earache, a fever, itching or fluid leaking from your ear)
Your eardrum will usually heal without treatment, but a GP can check for an infection (which may need treatment) and talk to you about how you can look after your ear.

They'll look into your ear using a small handheld torch with a magnifying lens. The tip of this goes into your ear, but it only goes in a little way and should not hurt.


There is no suggestion of spending half a day being fully and thoroughly triggered at the state this country
has gotten into at the international accident and emergency department. I fear that will make me feel worse
than the perforated eardrum.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 00:01 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If I had blood running out of my ear I'd be in A&E and not booking a GP appointment.


You'd probably get told to book a GP appointment Laughing
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 10:49 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Polarbear wrote:
Germany runs pretty well on a health system that involves a lot of private companies.

As far as I can see the NHS is a money pit that has sh1t management. Public owned companies always seem to have sh1t management. Probably people who couldn't hack it in the private sector.

The other thing that puzzles me is the 'NO, NOT PRIVATE' screams from whoever. As long as it stays free at point of help, what does it matter what system runs it? The more efficient the better surely. Just like the German system, use private where it can improve what we have rather than just chucking more and more money at it.


Plenty of private companies are s#it look at the water companies and public transport. The NHS has also been run by the Tories for twelve years who trade on the fantasy that they represent good management, if thats the case you have to consider they're deliberately managing it exactly the way they want to.

Its not the use of private companies thats the risk its the giving over of the system to mega corp insurance companies. No German would want what the US has but our right wing politicians are in love with the big bucks 'murican grifting culture that would see you bankrupted by your healthcare needs and their pockets filled with loot. The german system is based around a Social Market economy, which to 'muricans is tantamount to communism it uses private public partnership but in matters of national importance like healthcare the government are firmly in control.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 13:38 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
Efficient is good. Paying a profit margin is bad. If they are making a profit then the people they employ aren't getting a pension.


Profit is not bad per se, it's an indication that the business (whatever it is) is running efficiently enough to have money left over. That being said the alternative - shock, horror - is run it as a charity. How come no one ever mentions this as an alternative to the privatise / public ownership debate?
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:56 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Charity is incredibly inefficient because they spend a good proportion of donations advertising for more donations.
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Freddyfruitba...
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PostPosted: 15:28 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Went to see my 90-year-old mum this week (lives alone, 2 hours away) - not well. She'd tried to get an emergency GP appointment on Monday and Tuesday only to be told when she finally got through 'no, all appointments - including phone - have gone: try again tomorrow". I phoned them again myself from her house on Wednesday afternoon; eventually got to speak to a receptionist to whom I 'very politely' expressed my concerns; she went off and spoke to a nurse and the advice was 'you need to take her to A&E'.

We arrived at A&E at 6pm. Got triaged about an hour later, and mum then had to sit in the waiting room on a hard wooden chair until 2 am when she finally got seen. Various tests were done over the next 3 hours (which could have taken half an hour in total if she'd had a dedicated staff member looking after her), whereupon she was admitted. She finally got to a ward at about 11 am next day, where she's been ever since.

It's all fucked.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Easy-X wrote:


Profit is not bad per se, it's an indication that the business (whatever it is) is running efficiently enough to have money left over. That being said the alternative - shock, horror - is run it as a charity. How come no one ever mentions this as an alternative to the privatise / public ownership debate?


Or a cooperative, where the customers are effectively the shareholders who steer where the company goes and profits are either re-invested in the company or payed as dividends to the customers?

Like the coop supermarket where there is a larger than usual emphasis on sustainability, local produce and ethical production in the goods they stock. The "loyalty" card is actually your dividend and some of it is also channeled into local good causes.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 16:16 - 12 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

grr666 wrote:
Nobby the Bastard wrote:
If I had blood running out of my ear I'd be in A&E and not booking a GP appointment.

It only seems to happen when I'm in bed, I'm more alarmed by the slight hearing loss, my left ear is ringing like it
does immediately after coming out from a really loud gig. I don't even know where my nearest A&E is? I just want
someone who knows what they are looking at to take a quick look in there, (which is what the NHS website suggests)

There is no suggestion of spending half a day being fully and thoroughly triggered at the state this country
has gotten into at the international accident and emergency department. I fear that will make me feel worse
than the perforated eardrum.


Try your local minor injuries unit. They have always been quick and efficient when I've used one. If they can deal with it, they will do. If they think you need to see a GP, they'll referr you back to them (which tends to light a rocket under their arse). If they think you need to go to A&E, they'll send you there with a letter saying you need to go to A&E.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 02:17 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ribenapigeon wrote:
And who puts these managers in charge? It all looks like its deliberately being managed into the ground. It is a management and human resources problem though, visit any NHS facility and its always the latest kit, even the bloody fans are Dyson ones. The NHS looks like a fattened calf.


A lot of the fat is by direction of Westminster rule.
Local healthcare services are responsible for function and finance but a lot of that is controlled by Westminster. So they have very limited choice in who they spend money with.
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stinkwheel
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PostPosted: 02:33 - 13 Nov 2022    Post subject: Reply with quote

Two things need to be done that would go a very long way to releiving pressure on the NHS. And they wouldn't cost any more money.

1) Adopt a 7 day working week where all staff are on a staggered 5-on, 2-off working pattern so there are as many staff working on a Sunday as there are on a Wednesday. Routine work is not being carried out at weekends. You are more likely to die if you are ill at a weekend. Very expensive facilities which are under high demand (such as MRI scanners) are sitting unused at weekends.

I refuse to believe this wouldn't suit a lot of people. Especially working parents who could then stagger their working weeks and vastly reduce their childcare costs.

2) Roll up personal care under the NHS. It's currently run by councils. A huge amount of the NHS problem is they can't discharge patients until their care has been arranged. It is vastly more expensive to keep these people in hospitals. If the whole chain of care was under the auspices of the NHS and coming out of their budget, they would make damned sure there was sufficient personal care provision if only for the simple reason it would save them a lot of money.

I suspect the councils would welcome not being responsible for this too, they could hand over their personal care budget to another agency and let them take care of it.
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