Awaab Ishak: Toddler's mould death is unacceptable

[Polarbear]

OK, arguement time.

Yes I'm sad this lad has died but we have mould in our house. Wifie cleans it. Am I wrong in asking why kids parents havent indulged in a bit of house cleansing?

Yes, the pictures aren't nice, certaiinly not million pound homes on adverts. but most of us live in bog standard basic houses. I clean mould on my boat because I don't like it.

Or should the government clean up after everyone. (dog poo bags cost you know).

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-63641438
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[stinkwheel]

If you are in a defective building, it's not just a case of cleaning. Mrs stinkwheels last digs were a nightmare for damp and mould. To the point you had to keep bags of flour in plastic bags in the cupboards or they'd be hairy mouldy within a couple of weeks. It grew behind any furniture that was up against a wall and even under carpets. It turned out a couple of years later that there was a burst water main under the building and it was effectively sitting on top of a pond.

My student tennement digs had a leaky roof and because several of the people in the building wouldn't chip in, it never got fixed. Nobody listened to the students on the top floor and they didn't see a problem. I woke up one night to a tearing sound which turned out to be the wallpaper peeling itself down off the wall. Black hairy mould under it.

My eventual solution to that was to stop putting a bucket under the drips and lift the floorboards so they dripped directly onto the ceiling of the flat below. When they complained about water pissing in through their light fittings, I told them it's the leaky roof they refused to get fixed.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[grr666]

Story time, before I moved to the West Country I lived in Harold Hill near Romford. I lived next door to an African
family. They had the exact same same two bedroom house me and my then girlfriend did but there were 7 of them in
there. He worked for the London Underground as a platform attendant and she worked in nursing. They owned the house.
Don't get me wrong, they were friendly and polite, after the father and me had our first discussion when I moved in
and after he tried to bring it into the conversation half a dozen times I politely had to reinforce my disinterest in religion
by pointing out that I wasn't and would never be remotely religious but this didn't mean we couldn't get on so long if
we allowed each other to have their own opinions on the topic, I later learned he was also a pastor. This guy wouldn't
let his children watch Harry Potter because it had witchcraft in it, you get my drift. His kids ranged from about 4 to
about 15 when I first moved in, two boys and three girls the oldest and youngest being boys. The children were
very respectful and polite, occasionally they might get a little noisy but it was all good natured stuff and if it became
a bit much I'd only have to go out side and ask them to calm down a bit and they would.

As nice as they were, the family thought nothing of dumping old mattresses, smashed up children's toys and the
like in the back garden and just leaving them there to rot, they regularly clogged up the drains in the communal
driveway we shared with chicken fat. Even after me repeatedly unblocking them (as the water ran down into my back
garden flooding it) and explaining in very simple terms how and why this happened, with me even using a bowl of cold
water and some hot chicken fat to physically demonstrate what happens in the drains and how it solidifies when
it gets cold, they continued to do it. I'd often see the father of the house taking a piss in his own front garden, with
7 sharing a single toilet I can see why. There was the one occasion where he knocked on my front door and asked me
if I could come inside and look at one of his radiators. Being the neighbourly type I said yes of course. The main
radiator in his living room had burst a seam and was steadily squirting water out like a water pistol. The thing that got
me was that they had every single receptacle in the house, saucepans, a childrens potty, washing up bowls and whatnot
dotted about all all over the living room floor all full of water, they weren't emptying a single container and putting
it back again to catch more nor were they throwing any of the water away, almost as if they believed it could be put
back in somehow. It was a self filling heating system so the water kept coming, the radiators were on flat out, hot to the
touch. The family were sitting round in bath robes just stepping over all these bowls of water everywhere. I went a
back into my house and got a couple of wrenches and simply isolated that radiator and then let the pressure out of it
so that the leak stopped and informed him he needed a new radiator. A few days later I saw a plumbers van outside
and indeed they had arranged to have the rad replaced. Happy days.

Just before I left to move to Bristol and a few years later he knocked again and asked me to come and take a look
inside his house. The heating was on again it was about 28 degrees in there. There was thick black mould on every
wall, floor to ceiling. I have to say, I never saw them ever have a window open in the 5 years I lived next door
to them. I tried to explain that there were basically too many of them in there, they had it too warm and they needed
to ventilate the place regularly to prevent this and would need a fungicidal wash and a repaint to get rid of it. But I
might as well have told my other neighbours cat for what good it probably did. I ended up clearing all the garbage
out of their garden when I was selling my house because I didn't want it to put off any prospective buyers, there were
three mattresses amongst what I cleared. As nice as they were, they were not cut out for life in the modern world I'm
afraid. He would regularly tell me how he would pray to sort out things that weren't going right for him, like it was all
gods will or something. There was no damp, or mould in my almost identical house even once during the years I owned it.
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Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[xX-Alex-Xx]

It’s not always under your control. A long time back I rented a flat with the bathroom towards the centre of the building (ie no windows) and the vent wasn’t exactly great. Ended up getting a shitload of mould in the corners of the ceiling even though I had the fan running almost full time and was using fungicidal spray pretty much every day etc. landlord tried to pin it on me until I complained enough that they actually looked into the flat above me and discovered their bathroom piping was leaking through the floor into my ceiling.

But yeah if I had a kid at that point I’d have been bugging the landlord every day and probably would have moved out even sooner than I did.
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DILLIGAF

[MCN]

[stinkwheel]

Insulation also plays a big part.

My house is well insulated and there's not a spot of damp or mould even though we've done a lot to eliminate draughts. What it does have is an industrial grade cooker hood with an outside vent and an open flue wood burner in the living room so it keeps air circulating. No condensation on the windows or anything despite me keeing the house pretty cool ('stat set at 17 or 17.5).

My porch on the other hand is a single skin block wall and in the winter, it gets actual water on the wall and mould will quickly spring up (probably not helped by hanging damp bike, watersports and outdoor gear in there to dry). Condesnsation on the window every morning.

I halved the amount of mould in the porch by putting up insulated wallpaper (yes, it's a thing) and it's got eggshell paint so I can wipe it off.

It's all down to the dew point which is a function of relative surface temperature and humidity. If a wall is cold compared to the room, water will condense on it. The larger the temperature difference, the more condensation (and mould0 will form. You get rid of the humidity by ventilation, you get rid of the temperature difference by insulation.

It's probably high time they enforced a minimum standard of insulation on rental properties. There is no excuse for it not already being done on any council properties. In fact, all council properties should be fully insulated and have solar panels on where possible to my mind. Although it seems council building control have great difficulty preventing people using flammable cladding, so that's something they should probably work on.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Polarbear]

I'm certainly not saying that if the house is going to suffer from mould it shouldn't be repaired or whatever needs doing and if that is the case the housing people association or whoever is the landlord shouls fix it. I'm just saying that surely the tenants could have kept it to a level that wouldn't have been detremental to the kids health.

I just sort of think if it was so bad and all down to the house, it would have been present when they moved in and they would have seen it. If it wasn't some of it might be down to their way of living and they need educating on how to change their lifestyle to (help) get rid of it.
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[Rob Fzs]

[doggone]

[grr666]

Letting it stand empty still gets you a water, gas and electricity standing charge, even with zero consumption and
with the electricity switched off, and water and gas shut off at the mains. Plus a full council tax bill. More than it would be
if there was a single person living there actually using services such as refuse collection who would be entitled to 25%
discount. It also needs special insurance if it's empty, most landlord insurance is only valid if the property is occupied.
I'm not in that game any more, but there was a lot of expenditure if you did it legally and properly. Even getting rid of a
cvnty, difficult, non paying tenant ends up costing you money in the end. Believe me, I know.

Arguably, a council property should be maintained to a minimum standard as people are placed in those
with little choice as to the area or condition and standard of the property. But a private tenancy is a different
ball of wax in my opinion. I'm not saying that it's okay to rent out a rathole, but it's a bit like buying a used car.
You don't have to rent it and you'll usually have a good look round the place to see (and smell) it before signing
any kind of agreement, you also don't have to stay if it's not to your satisfaction, Free market innit. I always dealt
promptly with any gripes my tenants may have had and sorted things to their satisfaction very quickly, I also would
spend money on the upgrading of my places every year, one year new windows the next a new boiler, the next
new carpets and a repaint and so on. I also gave them a full once over, deep clean and refresh between tenants.
My standard was 'Would I be happy to rent this place?' and the rent I charged reflected that standard of accommodation
and my involvement and quick resolution of maintenance issues that can crop up from time to time regardless of how
well kept a property is. My other policy was to charge £50 per month less than the going rate. £600 a year saved, enough for
a little holiday. It kept my tenants 'sticky' which is what you want as a landlord, because they knew they weren't being
milked and got to live in good quality, well maintained houses.
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Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[Rob Fzs]

[stinkwheel]

[grr666]

I never had a mortgage on any of my rentals only my own residence. What else was I supposed to spend that
money on where I could get a decent return?
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Currently enjoying products from Ford, Mazda and Yamaha
Ste wrote: Avatars are fine, it's signatures that need turning off.

[A100man]

Its a very sad tale. But the mould problem is common these days.

Small flats, no garden to dry clothes, hermetically sealed with UPVC glazing, you get the picture.

Landlords and HAs are always doling out advice on how to prevent mould from condensation and it is routinely ignored.

Clearly we haven't go a full picture here but I wouldn't be surprised if this turned out to be one of these case where the tenant has a some responsibility albeit unwitting.

ATEOTD Unless holes in roof and/or poor guttering the moisture is generated inside and need to be expelled.
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[Rob Fzs]

[stinkwheel]

[doggone]

[stinkwheel]

I'd say a more common scenario is people speculatively buying multiple properties on cheap mortages and using the rental income to service the mortgage... Then interest rates go up.

On the whole, I fundamentally disageree with the concept of having to rent property. It's lost money and from what I can see at the moment, costs more than paying off a mortgage. Useful as a temporary measure but not as a way to live.

The whole rent to buy model with council properties in the 80's was a phenomenal idea that was fucked up by the details. It had all the benefits of social housing but the rent was actually buying you your home.

Where it fucked up was the money disappearing into the treasury vortex and not being ring-fenced for new build schemes to allow the next generation to do the same. With the benefits of scale and ability to streamline planning and use eminent domain, they should have been able to build 2 for every one they sold off.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

Insulation can make damp worse if improperly installed, either because the building structure is unsuitable or the job’s badly done.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-dark-side-of-insulating-britain/

[grr666]

[Easy-X]

A badly vented tumble dryer makes all the difference. The flat I used to live in had the tumble dryer in the kitchen and the bread would go mouldy within a day or 2. Now the dryer's out in the shed and bread lasts about a week.
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[Polarbear]

[Bhud]

There's a worrying tendency to pin the blame on landlords, just for political expediency. Landlords are not hoteliers, nor are they employers. They aren't there all the time and they don't know what (if any) issues might arise, unless they're informed. When this process doesn't work, more often than not it's a third party (some kind of agent) that's to blame. If someone has a child that's getting sick because of unsafe living conditions, it's imperative to get to a place of safety (such as a hotel) and get medical assistance. That's the responsibility of a parent. If the dwelling is unfit and it isn't made good by a responsible landlord, the parent should move out and terminate the rental agreement because of breach of contract. Parents are ultimately responsible for the health of their kids, and nobody else.

[Keithy]

[grr666]