v-reg zx9r stranded me thrice

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Had the bike 5 years, bought w/ 18k on it, now got 98 on it. So it gets a lot of regular riding, even through winter. However, note that I rarely if ever ride it in rain. Number of times it's seen actual rain can probably count on both hands. If that. I'll try to provide more relevant details as I explain more about what's happened, where and how.

Couple of months back stranded me in town - after getting me there with no hints of a problem. Went into shop for a few odds and sods, came out, got on bike. Just wouldn't start. AA arrived, diagnosed bad battery on the basis that charging system was seen to be working well. That day I did get home, and fitted a new battery (NB I always hook the bike up to Optimate - always).

Now, a bit of back story: For the past couple of years, and maybe even a bit longer, this bike has a strange habit. Sometimes it simply refuses to start - and I am talking both warm and cold here. The "trick" is to do a Daddy Pig - i.e. turn the ignition key all the way anticlockwise and then back to the on position, and thumb the starter button. This simple solution works almost every time, and when it doesn't, try the same thing again, and it will work then. But the point is that, no matter how many times that starter turns over, the engine will not listen, absolutely doesn't wanna know at all. Just a quirk of the bike....and/or an early sign of a deeper problem? If the latter, this certainly went on for several years and a tens of thousands of miles.

Anyway, with the new battery on, I dismissed that particular breakdown as done and dusted, nothing to attach further significance to. Big mistake. A few weeks later I was caning it down the b1248 and it died on me. Never happened before. In the last few yards of momentum and changed down to second and tried to bump it - absolutely did NOT want to know. At all.

I got it down a side lane, and parked it up. Waited 15 minutes or more, and tried the starter. Iirc, it was weak. Like the battery was dead. I wish I could remember more clearly. But that's my recollection. In any case, I was going nowhere.

I got it recovered and taken to the bloke that works on it, near York. He couldn't find anything wrong. As in, the next day it started straight away on the button. He gave it dyno time. Got it hot. It just wouldn't die. It was making 127 at the wheel. For a 20 y/o 98k bike everything pointed to a machine in pretty rude health. All I could do was pick it up and ride it home. Now here's an important point, I think: For a while - i.e. 10-15 miles - it felt like it was only on three. Ok, yes, by the time I got home, it was definitely on four and idling properly on the drive before i stuck it back in the garage. But still....I was a bit freaked by the running on three thing. This bike NEVER does that. Not cold, not hot - not in town, not anywhere. So when it does, and when you know a bike properly, you notice it and pick up on it and think hmmm, ugh. Wtf. On the day, I thought, well, it has stood for a couple of weeks at the bloke's unit - with no Optimate or owt. So I kind of thought maybe, maybe, it's not used to being not run for so long. But nah - in retrospect that, I think, was quite simply wrong.

So - for better or worse, by which I mean definitely worse lol, a few weeks later I set out to meet some mates and the bike was very well-behaved, from cold starting, to cruising, to a bit of relatively spirited blasting. I had best part of 60 miles done - with a bit of stop somewhere along the way. Then another one, further on - and we set out for Seaways, off up the Buttercrambe rd, I was leading, and properly enjoying the bike and the route. I got 20 miles or so further on and the bastard snuffed it again. This time I felt it go down into three - and in fact, now I remember, this was Black Friday, and we'd been into town to see if there was any cheap clobber at Infinity's. I'm recalling that, when i got back on the bike after going in the shop, whilst it started fine, it was on three in town there.

But again, it seemed to "warm up" and run properly, after getting out of town, and I thought hmmm okay, maybe I should just fvck off home while the going's good - but it went so well that I thought sod it, I'll carry on. Which I did, until, as I said, it snuffed it.

For the third time, I got it recovered and back down to the fettler's near York. And that's where it's been ever since.

I've been doing a little bit of snooping on the zx9r forum and some say fuel pump. But is it possible it could run on three with a knackered pump? I feel as if that's unlikely. I feel like, because it won't die on the dyno, it's some sort of loose wire / connection / doohickey that will only fail over / on a bumpy road. And this bike's had to contend with a lot of those in my hands. Partly because of where I live - on tight rural back lanes - but also because of how and where I like to ride (in some ways I've got the wrong bike tbf - but I just love the power and character of the bike so eh, whatever). Let me just say, however, that each time the bike has actually stranded me, it has been on the better roads in the area - the roads with very good surfaces, not much in the way of bumps, jolts, or jarring. I personally don't think it's not dying on the dyno because the dyno isn't simulating real, actual everyday riding conditions. That's just a gut vibe though, admittedly.

Summarily, you might well say this is all irrelevant and the bike has had its day, its been faithful and good up til now, you can't expect any more from it. Scrap it, it's not worth it, intermittent faults of this kind are horrendous, spendy and a total basturd. I get that.

Otoh, and from both cosmetic and mechanical POVs, this bike could theoretically keep going and going, if this particular fault can be put right. The bike looks good (no corrosion, just had wheels powder coated, got upgraded 4 pot callipers, etc, etc.), and makes decent power. And I get on with it really well. I dunno. I don't know which way to jump, tbh. I'm not sentimental, as such. But I do feel a bit of an obligation to try and save an otherwise decent bike from the breakers. I suppose the question is how far I go with that, by which I mean, how much I spend. Any advice, thoughts, diagnoses, etc, very welcome. Thanks in advance.
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"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Robby]

Both problems would be explained by an ignition fault.

It's very intermittent, which makes it a bastard to diagnose, but points me towards a corroded connection or a switch - ignition or kill switch - playing up.

Possibly coil(s) breaking down, but not something I would go to just yet. Not something I've personally experienced.

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

The keyed ignition switch on my similar vintage 6R is so worn after 70k miles I can lift the key out without turning it, and sometimes it has needed an extra nudge clockwise to switch on. It hasn’t been a problem but I can imagine it could be.

When I unwittingly snipped the fuel pump wire the bike started and warmed up normally but only got me 50 yards before the engine cut out, so on that basis I wouldn’t suspect your fuel pump.

Carb icing?

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

on a side note - does the AA up your renewal price if you call them out too much??

like, i will get the r/h switch gear properly done - but then i gotta trust the mutha fvcka on an elongated shake down....cos it can go 70 miles or more before digging its heels in
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[A100man]

My FZ went on to 2/3 pots due to a corroded plug cap innards. It uses long ones that can be dismantled (inc the resistor) and cleaned up.

Perhaps time to treat it to some new caps and plugs - just to eliminate that possibility.
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Now: A100, GT250A, XJ598, FZ750

Then: Fizz, RS200, KL250, XJ550, Laverda Alpina, XJ600, FZS600

[stinkwheel]

I've had three EX500 ignition switches fail in such a way as they allowed you to turn over the engine but not power up the ignition. They make more than one contact when in the on position and it wasn't making all of them. I'd imagine a ZX9 uses a similar switch.

I've also had power relays in one of the black boxes go sticky.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

Ok good - I will definitely put the ignition switch and assy at the top of the potential culprit list. As I said, the long term inmates of the zx9r forum pointed to this previously. Also, as noted, this bike has always been very very slightly prone to weirdness in this context. My only slight vibe is why would an ignition problem lead to cutting out once the bike has been running for 30 minutes or more. I get that it would cause obvious problems prior to firing up - but not once it's idling or underway.
____________________
"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."

Mobylette Type 50 ---> Raleigh Grifter ---> Neval Minsk 125

[Kawasaki Jimbo]

[stinkwheel]

Rusty coil earths are another perennial kawasaki "thing" in my experience.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[P.]

The first thing I thought of when reading was ignition switch and potentially coils.

I read the answers, its where I would have gone first too

[A100man]

[stinkwheel]

I Keep thinking of stuff. Have a look at either end of the main power feed between the main fuse and the ignition switch (probably a fat white wire in kawasaki wiring schemes). Again on different models of kawasaki I've had this specific wire start corroding badly so the tangs on the fuse looked like they'd been nibbled and there was green corrosion disappearing off up the insulation. Had it happen at either end. It caused weird and intermittant electrical faults culminating in a recovery with a dead bike.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[stinkwheel]

[blurredman]

[Easy-X]

An old bike, plenty of miles, plenty of things will get a bit tired. You have multiple problems which makes it hard to diagnose.

Ignition, fuel pump, new coils + HT leads + plug caps. If all those parts are the original factory stuff you'd be doing the bike a favour renewing them anyway, see how it goes from there.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

[B1N]

If it were me I'd start pulling apart electrical connectors one by one.
I'd carefully look with good light and preferably a magnifyier for any small sign of corrosion, tarnished contacts, signs of overheating or anything that looks different to the other connectors.

Intermittent faults are the worst, good luck.

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]

[stinkwheel]

If you think about it, when it runs out of fuel, it doesn't just die immediately, it runs rough and drops cylinders out first.
____________________
“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[WD Forte]

Sounds kind electrical.
20 years and 98K says give it a thorough electrical check over and service to me.
Test for consistent grounding. Open, check, clean all connectors and cabling, flush out switches with contact cleaner
open and check any suspect ones.
Service starter motor.
Hot/cold resistance test on pulsers and stick coils.
Check internal junction box connections and squish contact cleaner in the relays ( if not open them up and closely inspect/clean)
Check ignition switch function and soldering, personally I'd open it up
if I had doubts about it.
check, test side stand switch function.

Most of it will probably check out fine but it won hurt and at least you'll know it been done.
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bikers smell of wee

[trevor saxe-coburg-gotha]