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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:17 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
[quote="Islander"]
Easy-X wrote:


Who said Scottish people hate the English? They just resent English interference in Scottish business.



Or cannot grasp that people in Scotland are British and subject to a Union with a legitimate elected government which has every legal right to act.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 12:19 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:



We'll have to get a Labour government to slowly fuck Devolution up for the SNP like they do with the NHS, because they can get away with it more than the Tories


Wtf? Please explain.


The tories are the bogeyman, they sneeze and the press says the NHS is up for sale

Labour, essentially the same party, are seen as a safe pair of hands with the NHs, so they can fuck it up and people wont believe its happening

Same in the US, they're still bundling kids in to cages on the border but because it's the Democrats, the press aint interested in reporting it.

A Lab gov could quietly dismantle devolution if they had the means to, soft left vote in Scotland will vote Lab if they know they'll get a Lab gov in the Uk rather than a tory one, what's the point of keep voting for the SSNP if you can get the real deal throughout the state, unfortunately thanks to Blair, this genie will only get put back in the bottle by a Lab government
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:26 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:


The tories are the bogeyman, they sneeze and the press says the NHS is up for sale

Labour, essentially the same party, are seen as a safe pair of hands with the NHs, so they can fuck it up and people wont believe its happening

Same in the US, they're still bundling kids in to cages on the border but because it's the Democrats, the press aint interested in reporting it.

A Lab gov could quietly dismantle devolution if they had the means to, soft left vote in Scotland will vote Lab if they know they'll get a Lab gov in the Uk rather than a tory one, what's the point of keep voting for the SSNP if you can get the real deal throughout the state, unfortunately thanks to Blair, this genie will only get put back in the bottle by a Lab government


It's who the Tories would hand over health services that's the concern not that the private sector can provide services. There's a whole gang of US mega insurance corporations out there looking to get stuck into exploiting us.
Its worth noting that some of the early attempts at creating healthcare services through insurance mechanisms was by labour unions. So as a lefty im quite prepared to consider such arrangements, but also remember one of the reasons the NHS was created was to bring these disparate health provisions together into something more universal and efficient.
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 12:35 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:

Its worth noting that some of the early attempts at creating healthcare services through insurance mechanisms was by labour unions. So as a lefty im quite prepared to consider such arrangements, but also remember one of the reasons the NHS was created was to bring these disparate health provisions together into something more universal and efficient.


NHS is sadly getting ruined by it's own success of keeping people that should have died a long time ago, alive

But still, Lab could turn it in to a pure insurance thing and they wouldn't get as much stick as the tories do
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Islander
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PostPosted: 12:41 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:


[misquoted text yet again]

Or cannot grasp that people in Scotland are British and subject to a Union with a legitimate elected government which has every legal right to act.


Sort your quotes out, idiot.
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MCN
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PostPosted: 14:27 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
NHS in Private hands is NOT THE NHS exactly by definition let alone by name.

It will be the end of a system of health care that has offered magnificent help to everyone when needed.

Trained some of the worlds best people in healthcare and responded to many unforeseen events admirably.

It always needs adjustments.

It could maybe charge more for some services.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 14:55 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:


Sort your quotes out, idiot.


Enjoy.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 15:00 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:


NHS is sadly getting ruined by it's own success of keeping people that should have died a long time ago, alive

But still, Lab could turn it in to a pure insurance thing and they wouldn't get as much stick as the tories do


That's just not true. If Labour did move to an insurance type system which is unlikely there's little chance it would be done simply to further the profitering motives of US insurance companies. We all know the reverse would be the case with the Tories and they would rightly criticised for it.
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M.C
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PostPosted: 15:12 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
M.C wrote:

My problem is you quoted what Rob wrote under my name...

The reply was only two quotes anyway so you didn't need to break the tags.


Ok i see that now. Why you have to be such a dick about it will remain a mystery though.

I wasn't aware I was. In my head it was...
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 16:44 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:


NHS is sadly getting ruined by it's own success of keeping people that should have died a long time ago, alive

But still, Lab could turn it in to a pure insurance thing and they wouldn't get as much stick as the tories do


That's just not true. If Labour did move to an insurance type system which is unlikely there's little chance it would be done simply to further the profitering motives of US insurance companies. We all know the reverse would be the case with the Tories and they would rightly criticised for it.


Have you seen who's in Labours front bench, Ex banker this, ex Management consultant that, it's why the railways never got sorted properly even though Blair had a majority to do anything
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:01 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:


Have you seen who's in Labours front bench, Ex banker this, ex Management consultant that, it's why the railways never got sorted properly even though Blair had a majority to do anything


And which parties leader is an ex wall st hedge fund manager? Wise up.
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 17:06 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
M.C wrote:

I wasn't aware I was. In my head it was...



I suppose that's the curse of the internet, whats in our head verses whats on someone elses screen. Shocked
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 17:08 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Ribenapigeon wrote:
Rob Fzs wrote:


Have you seen who's in Labours front bench, Ex banker this, ex Management consultant that, it's why the railways never got sorted properly even though Blair had a majority to do anything


And which parties leader is an ex wall st hedge fund manager? Wise up.


Man wait till you find out they're both utterly shit and the best arrangement would be a hung parliament
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Jmoan
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PostPosted: 18:31 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Alternatively,
59% of those who responded disagreed with the overall purpose of the Bill

Two-thirds of Scots oppose Scot Govt’s gender self-ID Bill


and about 90% disagreed with the air gun licensing but that didn't stop some MSP named macaskill from just doing it anyway because they felt like it.


Ribenapigeon wrote:
Jmoan wrote:
The problem boils down to this.
The real idiots have been getting lots of unjust entitlements that came at the expense of everyone else on the basis that real idiots were oppressed so should be given free stuff. The scottish system is riddled with people like this.
Now you have those that have transitioned to idiots and the real idiots don't like the idea that the transitioned idiots might get the same special treatment and are shitting the bed.


So you're on the side of..........


....... Mel Gibson.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 19:19 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
The NHS would be fine if it weren't for the immigrants asylum seekers swashbucklers Sad
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Islander
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PostPosted: 19:38 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
The NHS would be fine if it weren't for the immigrants asylum seekers swashbucklers Sad


Would it bollocks. It's been mismanaged and under resourced for years.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 19:43 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
The NHS would be fine if it weren't for the immigrants asylum seekers swashbucklers Sad


Would it bollocks. It's been mismanaged and under resourced for years.


How long have the SNP been in power in Scotland? Seems to me they've had plenty of time to sort things out up there.
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Islander wrote:
Easy-X wrote:
The NHS would be fine if it weren't for the immigrants asylum seekers swashbucklers Sad


Would it bollocks. It's been mismanaged and under resourced for years.


So what's the point if it could never work? Did it ever work?
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Islander
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PostPosted: 20:14 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
Islander wrote:


Would it bollocks. It's been mismanaged and under resourced for years.


So what's the point if it could never work? Did it ever work?


It worked really well up to the point that a tory government started messing around with it so that their public school chums could get their snouts in the trough.

Modernisation is a laudable ambition but when it's done incompetently to the extent that the real clinicians end up underpaid and overworked while overpaid 'managers' piss the money that could be used to set proper pay rates and invest in clinical services up the wall on agency workers. Why? Because the underpaid and overworked clinicians end up quitting the service.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
It’s said that managers make up only 2% to 4% of the NHS workforce. Less than many industries. But yes, they might be overpaid.
https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/health-and-social-care-bill/mythbusters/nhs-managers

The Tories introduced the Private Finance Initiative (PFI) but it was New Labour who really got going with it. Now NHS has PFI hospital bills of “£80billion for just £13billion of actual investment.”

https://lowdownnhs.info/analysis/the-history-of-privatisation-part-4-the-early-days-of-pfi/

https://www.ippr.org/news-and-media/press-releases/nhs-hospitals-under-strain-over-80bn-pfi-bill-for-just-13bn-of-actual-investment-finds-ippr
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Easy-X
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PostPosted: 20:49 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
And is there any political party offering remediation along those lines?
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:58 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Easy-X wrote:
And is there any political party offering remediation along those lines?

I think that was addressed to Islander but I’ll answer with respect to PFI by quoting a section of the IPPR link.

Quote:
The (Tory) government has banned PFI, but not dealt with its legacy or provided new money for capital, leaving trusts with mountainous debts and little money to invest. The IPPR report The Make-do-and-Mend Service: Solving the NHS’ capital crisis makes two bold proposals to decisively end this damaging legacy:

Arrow End the toxic PFI legacy – Introduce a right-to-buy scheme that allows trusts to bring bad-value contracts into public ownership. This can be achieved by legislating for the right to enfranchisement.

Arrow End the neglect: - Spend an additional £5.5bn a year on NHS capital. This multi-year funding settlement would bring the UK into line with health capital spending per capita in other advanced economies.
The report’s conclusions demonstrate that the Chancellor’s one-off £2bn Spending Review cash injection does not meet the long-term needs of the health service – in fact it does not even cover next year's PFI payment.

Chris Thomas, IPPR Health Fellow, said:

“In 2018, the Chancellor told us ‘PFI was dead’. Our analysis shows it is actually alive and well – thanks to a Government refusing to take decisive action. That means toxic PFI contracts are still driving billions away from patients and into private bank accounts. And it means the NHS has no mechanism to bring in capital investment – blocking transformation and threatening even basic safety standards in our hospitals.
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chickenstrip
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PostPosted: 21:23 - 18 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Well, the first thing I'd do is scrap all the so-called "diversity and inclusion" grifters. It would at least show good faith that someone was earnest about reforming practices in order to make the vast sums sunk into the NHS every year actually get to where they're needed.

But everybody has been talking about all these overpaid managers for years and nothing has been done. Can anybody actually pick some of these individuals out and say exactly how they're wasting money, if my example above isn't good enough for you (and I don't state it as the miracle cure)?

But keeping more in line with the thread topic, Scotland can allocate resources and organise NHS Scotland more or less as it wishes, so why hasn't the SNP fixed it yet?
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Rob Fzs
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PostPosted: 11:55 - 19 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Only real way the NHS gets fixed is a mass scheme of training Doctors nurses etc, building multiple hospitals , gp surgeries , care homes etc etc

No one wants anything built near them and the Government wont stump up the money, so we'll forever be in a cycle of crisis while they just top up the bare minimum

Insurance based stuff just means the queues go down because people stay at home and die
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Ribenapigeon
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PostPosted: 12:29 - 19 Jan 2023    Post subject: Reply with quote
Rob Fzs wrote:


Man wait till you find out they're both utterly shit and the best arrangement would be a hung parliament


All governments are 5#ite really as they're essentially made up of amateurs. But that's also the advantage of a democracy, government by qualified technocrat has been tried and it fails ultimately. Look at China. Its government is made up of layers and layers of technocrats that spend years working their way up extremely arduous examination processes to then administratrate the country. Probably very effective at one level but would you want that.
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Old Thread Alert!

The last post was made 2 years, 114 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful?
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