Street triple Intermittent fault

[struan80]

Street Triple 675 2009

When I try to start it occasionally doesn't start. It has full power to the dash, fan's come on. won't turn over. No dimming of the headlights when I tried to start it. The battery is new.
I assumed plenty of power there so must be something else.
Bump started it and rode it home.
Tried to start it and it started first time. Took it out for a ride again and it seems to start no bother again. Then randomly doesn't start at all and starts again

What I'm thinking is a relay switch or something faulty? rectifier on the way out?

I'm wondering which of these could fail intermittently and which would just cause a permanent fault? So I can reduce the amount of things that I need to test.

Looking at the wiring diagram I can see that it could be a number of things creating the fault. Also the sidestand switch? I guess it would be to test these components one at a time while hoping the fault re-immerges.

I will likely give this to the mechanic I use but he is booked up until Mid October.

So I have a multimeter and know how to check voltage, resistance (Continuity). Insulation resistance but I'd need a megger.

Used to use Time Domain Reflectometry (TDR) for finding faults, Changes of impedence in long subsea cables power and control cables. It was 35 years ago at that time TDR was in it's infancy but that's not important right now.

I've never really dabled with motorbike electrics. I guess I'll need to figure out which relay is which. Are the relays/starters and there terminals normally situated around the battery compartment? Is there a need to take the stator cover off to access the terminals for rectifier/regulator?

I will search google but thought I'd ask in here anyway. Thanks for any thoughts.

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https://hosting.photobucket.com/images/yy224/struan80/ImageUploadedBy675.cc1363085731.299633.jpg

[Easy-X]

It sounds like you have everything but the starter motor turning over if you can bump start it.

The first thing to look at would be the starter motor and its associated solenoid (bottom right of the diagrams.) The solenoid is usually located very close to the battery and starter motor to cut down the amount of thick copper cables. Look for a chunky relay with a blade fuse.

Assuming you again find yourself in a no-start situation, whip off the seat carefully jab the terminals with your multimeter. One will run back to the battery and should have >12V and the other should show voltage when you hit the start button. If power is flowing it hints at a starter motor problem. A bit of grit jamming it up, but I think that unlikely. More likely is you're not seeing power. It won't be the fuse on the solenoid as otherwise the rest of the bike would be dead.

Next is the starter circuit relay which cuts the lights and directs power to the solenoid. Check fuse no.1 (but if this was blown you'd have no lights.) About the only other thing to check is an intermittent start switch and tracing all the wires in-between. The rest is "black box" stuff - either the ECU or "Alarm Connector" and there isn't anything you can do with those.

Oh, and safety cutouts (sidestand switch, neutral light, clutch lever) usually cut ignition and/or injector power.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[Nobby the Bastard]

In that case you need to look at the clutch lever, gear and side stand switches because they disable the starter.
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trevor saxe-coburg-gotha:"Remember this simple rule - scooters are for men who like to feel the breeze on their huge, flapping cunt lips."
Triumph Sprint ST 1050

[struan80]

Thanks guys,

I think I'm going to struggle to find a fault which is intermittent. We'll see. Hopefully the rain will have stopped for me to get multimeter out tomorrow.
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[Easy-X]

No.4 will be the "Starter circuit relay" in the diagram but elsewhere you should find the main starter solenoid. Something like this:

https://images.wemoto.com/full/ELECTRICAL_SOLENOID/wemoto-10089344.jpg

Careful with those big bolt terminals, one of them is connected directly to the battery positive.
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Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[recman]

[Nobby the Bastard]

[Mr Hammers]

I've found these work to varying degrees of success;

Let the clutch lever out slightly

Leave battery on charge overnight, always

Run a microswitch under the seat to the starter directly.

Always kick it into first, then neutral. Not second, then neutral.

Replace the spare starter motor, but with the newer spec, as the originals were never up to the job.

Realise at some point, sooner or later, that this is your life now.
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A Guide To Powerbands

[struan80]

If a coil, any coil, fails it will be an absolute fail and not be able to functionable intermittently?

So far I haven't found a fault. Power to the starter motor, relays, both primary input and the actual switch. The switches that I can access seem to work fine, checked the voltage across them in turn when they're powered to by the ignition switch. Power to the starter is present when I try and fire it up.

I need to wait until it doesn't start again and check again.

I'm enjoying learning and fucking about with this lol. The circuits are not that difficult to get my head around. Watch this space for when I connect 12v across the indicator relay.

[Easy-X]

[struan80]

I'm procratinating over this. The more procrastination I get the less likely I am to do something. And start procrastinating about procrastination.

So far I've got the bike out of the Farage, My garage consits of a smallish council lockup, which I have to pay £52 per month for. fuckers. It's situated about a mile or so from the house.

It's been sitting in the Farage for about a year and a half. Needed a new battery, old one, that actually wasn't that old, fails to hold any charge.

I got hold of a Haynes manual. I prefer to read from paper.

So I'm going to start on Monday with diagnostics I will get this fixed.

I'll test all electrics when bike is starting as it should. Check Continuity through all the respective relays as and when they should be triggered on ignition on. and all else that is connected to the starting system, Kick Stand, Isolator switch, Gear position sensor - Ill test the inlet and outlet of the rectifier. switch between ac and dc.

Then carry my multimeter in my rucksack and when the twat fails to start I'll repeat the tests again. Hopefully not in the middle of Princess Street. If both tests show power to the starter, then it's a starter ussue problem. I would think a starter motor failure would be terminal and not just intermittent?

The main problem I'll have is finding all the components. Never worked on a motorbike before even to the point that I've never changed my own oil.

I will survive!

[to v or not to v]

i know some Guzzi V7 owners were having intermittent starting problems on their bikes caused by the handlebar switches.
opening them up and cleaning with an electrical contact cleaner helped.
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current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[struan80]

My life is in the balance.

[to v or not to v]

you being a drama queen
____________________
current bike Yamaha Thunderace.
its old and fat, but its a damned good ride. the bikes not bad either.

[struan80]

[struan80]

The bike garage couldn't find the fault, although I think they were looking more for obvious things like an earth fault. They said it was due to dampness. Bullshit.

So I'm getting the bike back serviced, mot'd and running.

I almost 100% guarantee it will die a death at some point soon.

Back to square one I think.

[struan80]

Got it back from the garage now serviced and MOT'd. But, they couldn't find any fault with it. I said it was intermittent.

I need a better mechanic.

£75/hour is that normal to pay a private Motorcycle repair garage? Alas £627 has gone and just waiting for the bike not to start when I'm out,

I guess an interrmitent fault is a tricky one.

Not a happy lad.

[jeffyjeff]

You should have shown them your first post on this thread. It has all the information they need to diagnose the problem. It bump starts and runs, so you know the problem is likely in the cranking circuit. The problem is intermittent, so it's likely associated with an interlock intended to keep the bike from cranking; side stand switch, neutral switch, or kill switch. Can't be the kill switch, since you bump started it and it ran. Side stand switch most likely due to its location and exposure to water and oil. Neutral switches can go bad or maybe out of adjustment; I had one on my YBR that would illuminate the neutral light when in gear - fixed under warranty. Look at the wire crimps and terminals for corrosion or loose connections. Good news for you is that the problem does not keep the bike from running.
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History shows again and again how nature points out the folly of men - BOC

[struan80]

Seems no one can find any fault with the bike. I've not been out on it yet and am a bit paranoid that it will not start when I'm out, probably at the worst moment.

I'll take it out this week if the weather holds up.

Thanks everyone for your input. If nothing else I've learned a lot.

[Mr Hammers]

[stinkwheel]

Just seen this thread.

Check your charging system. I'd do a resistance test on the stator. Then with it running, check the voltage output from the reg/rec.

Reason being, I've seen two speed triples that deep fried their alternator windings into a smoking ruin. They both had odd intermittant starting/conking out faults in the lead-up to this.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[jeffyjeff]