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Parasitic drain again.

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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 05:53 - 22 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
... it’s not the fault of any of the fused circuits (horn, acc, fan, turn, ignition, taillights, headlight). What else could it be, and how would I test? All I can think of is the starter motor, alternator, or what remains of the old alarm loom?

If you have indeed tested and are completely sure that your fault is not in any fused circuit, then the problem must lie in an unfused circuit. As Nobby stated early on, the rectifier is high on the list of suspects because the diode bridge connects to the battery, to the stator coils, and to earth. I don't think anyone suggested testing the starter relay yet. The coil contacts are switched, but the relay contacts switch battery power directly to the starter windings; an electrical leak path might have developed therein. You mention an old alarm loom, or some fragments thereof. That would raise my suspicions, since that is a deviation from OE. You might look further into that.

To test, set up your ammeter and systematically remove the R/R and the starter relay. As for the alarm loom, you need to find where it sourced power for the alarm. Quite likely the alarm had an unswitched power source, since the alarm was intended to be working when the bike sat unattended.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:11 - 22 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

I recall I had this same problem when the alarm was still in place, but what remains of its loom could be draining the battery somehow I suppose. I really didn’t want to get into stripping that out.

Latest current readings with a much better quality meter are,

Arrow 10mA between negative lead and terminal. (The Yamaha R1 for comparison has 0.3mA, including immobiliser.)
Arrow still 10mA with reg/rec disconnected.
Arrow 10mA with all circuit fuses removed.
Arrow 10mA with fuel pump disconnected.
Arrow 8mA with main 30A fuse removed.

By a process of elimination it seems likely to be the starter motor but I couldn’t see or reach the connection to try it. I’ll tackle that another day.

I also found this battery website -https://www.batteriesinaflash.com/battery-run-time-calculator?srsltid=AfmBOory8v2nZZoqrlk22Okbr-HMVQkxGDogoZp56fcX4cvN_S51BR7i which suggests my 8Ah lead acid battery with the 0.01A draw would last 571 hours or 24 days, which tallies with what I’m getting. 10mA is too much draw.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 22 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

It would be the solenoid rather than the starter and it should be right by the battery, follow the thick red lead from the battery and it goes directly to it.

Bear in mind there are two sides to the solenoid, the switched/fused side which should only allow any currrent when you press the starter button and the main feed which goes to thhe starter motor and is triggered by the other side being powered. You should be able to remove the solenoid to starter motor side of the solenoid and then check current draw there.

Do not do it on the battery to solenoid side unless yoou want all kinds of mayhem if you accidentally touch the lead against anything metal, it will just short out your battery.)


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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 12:55 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks. I’ve pulled the faded red plug off the top of the starter solenoid. Current between negative battery terminal and battery post is 9mA. I’m not sure that’s the test you’ve told me to do though, Nobby. Is that good enough to confirm the starter circuit is not guilty?

https://i.postimg.cc/wjyTB5gL/IMG-1649.jpg
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 13:19 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Really need to measure the current draw between the solenoid and the lead.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 15:58 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK, both battery terminals connected. Black lead under the large, flat-topped rubber cap (ie. not the lead from the battery positive terminal) to starter solenoid disconnected and ammeter put between the two. Zero mA.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 15:59 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's not the solenoid/starter then.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 16:07 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
It's not the solenoid/starter then.

Thanks Nobby. I think that just leaves what remains of the old alarm loom then. I’ll look for any obvious abrasions but I’m not going to try stripping the wires out, I won’t understand what they all do. I’ll probably just have to live with it.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 16:53 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Disconnect solenoid and rec and pull main fuse and then test again on the battrery/ lead. Pretty sure the draw will still be there but just to be sure...
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 19:21 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, 9mA.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 19:57 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
...Thanks Nobby. I think that just leaves what remains of the old alarm loom then. I’ll look for any obvious abrasions but I’m not going to try stripping the wires out, I won’t understand what they all do. I’ll probably just have to live with it.

You don't have to strip all the wires out of the alarm loom. If you can locate the alarm power source, just disconnect it. If I were installing an alarm, I would power it straight off the battery, rather than violate the OE harness. Your photo shows two wires that appear to be add-ons; a black fuse cover right next to the OE fuse box, and a black and yellow wire connected to the negative terminal of the battery. Could one or both of those be connected to the alarm harness?
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Last edited by jeffyjeff on 20:15 - 23 Dec 2024; edited 2 times in total
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 19:59 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Personally I'd delete the alarm wiring but being sure it's not messing with the ignition is problematic.

The alternative.is just only connecting the battery before you go for a ride and disconnecting it afterwards.

Bit of an arse if using it daily, not so much if only used monthly.
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 20:01 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
Yep, 9mA.


This probably isn't possible if you have disconnected the solenoid.
Assuming you bike is wired like everything else then power goes from the battery, to the solenoid and then to the loom. If you remove the solenoid then the battery is only connected on the negative side.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:06 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Kawasaki Jimbo wrote:
...Thanks Nobby. I think that just leaves what remains of the old alarm loom then. I’ll look for any obvious abrasions but I’m not going to try stripping the wires out, I won’t understand what they all do. I’ll probably just have to live with it.

You don't have to strip all the wires out of the alarm loom. If you can locate the alarm power source, just disconnect it. If I were installing an alarm, I would power it straight off the battery, rather than violate the OE harness. Your photo shows two wires that appear to be add-ons; a black fuse cover right next to the OE fuse box, and a black and yellow wire connected to the negative terminal of the battery. Could one or both of those be connected to the alarm harness?


Your problem is quite often alarms isolate the ignition so it's not so simple as removing the power supply.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sickpup, I said disconnect the solenoid to motor side to avoid lots of sparking if the battery lead aside accidentally touched metal.

This will be an example of when you would very carefullyremove the battery side of the solenoid a d make sure it is placed in a position where it can't short the battery.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 20:16 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would inspect the harness for places where someone might have tapped into an OE conductor. One obvious clue would be the presence of "scotch locks". Scotch locks work OK when new, but they do not wear well. I would keep an eye out for a connection that looks like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54223231383_9b5c817f18_m.jpg
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:33 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

They wouldn't have been used to isolate the ignition. That would have required.cut and spliced wires.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:36 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
I would inspect the harness for places where someone might have tapped into an OE conductor. One obvious clue would be the presence of "scotch locks". Scotch locks work OK when new, but they do not wear well. I would keep an eye out for a connection that looks like this:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/54223231383_9b5c817f18_m.jpg

I’ll take a look but I’ll be surprised if those are present. When I bought the bike around 2001 with 1.5k on the clock I had OnYerBike install the alarm and the graft into the loom looks like a good job from what I can see. Still, any obvious point where there’s been a graft must be suss, as you say. There’s an awful lot of unwrapping to get there though.
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 20:39 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Your photo shows two wires that appear to be add-ons; a black fuse cover right next to the OE fuse box, and a black and yellow wire connected to the negative terminal of the battery. Could one or both of those be connected to the alarm harness?

I believe they are, yes. I’ll double-check tomorrow.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 20:48 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

So it has an aftermarket alarm still fitted?

Ffs....
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Kawasaki Jimbo
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PostPosted: 21:05 - 23 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
So it has an aftermarket alarm still fitted?

Ffs....

No, as I said, I removed it, but this parasitic drain continues. There’s no harm in publicising this more widely now, the Datatool System 3 is long gone, I followed these instructions - https://www.sonicsideshow.com/blog/-how-to-bypass-a-datatool-system-3-motorcycle-alarm#comments. The remnants of the alarm loom are still there and I assume, following this process of elimination, that that’s where the problem lies.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 20:10 - 24 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
Your photo shows two wires that appear to be add-ons; a black fuse cover right next to the OE fuse box, and a black and yellow wire connected to the negative terminal of the battery. Could one or both of those be connected to the alarm harness?

The black/yellow one is not an add-on and the bike will have come from the factory with this wire in place. It's the neg
'return' wire for much of the electrical circuitry.
The now removed alarm may have had it's return spliced into this wire but I doubt that this will be the cause of your drainage problems.
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jeffyjeff
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PostPosted: 21:57 - 24 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

Raffles wrote:
The black/yellow one is not an add-on and the bike will have come from the factory with this wire in place. It's the neg
'return' wire for much of the electrical circuitry.

The black/yellow wire appears to be a 2mm conductor and was certainly added on post-manufacture. The heavy black wire crimped to the flat battery terminal connector is the OE connector. I agree that the black/yellow wire is not likely the cause of the parasitic drain, but could be part of the parasitic circuit, and therefore should be investigated.
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Nobby the Bastard
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 24 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's an earth. it's obviously introduced to get round another problem. It's should not a cause for why the battery is being drained.

I'd look at what its atteched to though. Probably introducxed because of shit earths everwhere else.

There's an obvious connection point there. Stick your multimeter in between the two ends.
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Raffles
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 24 Dec 2024    Post subject: Reply with quote

jeffyjeff wrote:
The black/yellow wire appears to be a 2mm conductor and was certainly added on post-manufacture. The heavy black wire crimped to the flat battery terminal connector is the OE connector.

Nobby the Bastard wrote:
It's an earth.....I'd look at what its atteched to though. Probably introducxed because of shit earths everwhere else.

The black/yellow wire is attached to pretty much everything other than the starter motor. The reason for it's existence is rust/corrosion causing a shit connection between earth terminals and the frame.
The bike came out of the factory with that wire forming part of the loom.
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