Linked braking

[Tony Norton]

Hello again,

I have finally made a decision. As I have no wish, at my age, to own, or ride, a Class "A" bike, I have decided not to go for the "A" tests.

I have done a deal, therefore, with a reputable main dealer, to part with my MT-07 in exchange for a Kawasaki Eliminator 500. As a bonus I get the best part of £200 refunded from the policy I had taken out, plus a few good 'add-ons', like breakdown cover.

My only problem now is that all the bikes I have regularly ridden have had linked braking. Enough of the groans from the purists! The Eliminator, however, does not have this feature. I realise that to convert is not just a matter of a couple of "T" junctions and lengths of hydraulic piping. The braking effort has to be proportionately split, front to back. Not a DIY job.

Can anybody recommend someone, preferably from personal experience, who could do such a job for me? Preferably someone on the South Coast.

Any suggestions would be most welcome.

Happy biking.
Tony
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough! Bikes: YSL 125, AJS Cadwell, Honda Rebel 500, Z300 (to get through A2 Mod 1), MT-07 (Restricted), Eliminator 500.

[stinkwheel]

It would be a lot of work for minimal benefit (or I'd argue making it worse in terms of complexity and flexibility). You''d need to transplant the entire braking system from another bike. They don't just apply both brakes, they have two inputs to each calliper so when you apply the rear, it applies only one or two of the front pistons and vice versa.

I would strongly suggest practicing with a standard setup, linked brakes are only a benefit for people with a disability or who have bad riding habits. A day spent practicing hard progressive braking will see you stopping faster and in more control than fitting linked brakes. If you're braking as hard as you can with the front, the rear is doing nothing in terms of slowing you down.
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“Rule one: Always stick around for one more drink. That's when things happen. That's when you find out everything you want to know.”
I did the 2010 Round Britain Rally on my 350 Bullet. 89 landmarks, 3 months, 9,500 miles.

[Tony Norton]

"or who have bad riding habits."

I think Stinkwheel's response could well apply to me.

I've spent over 3 years using the footbrake only, mainly for urban riding, and haven't yet had to use the front brake in anger, only for a final stop at junctions or in traffic.

I am concerned that to carry on this habit on a conventionally braked bike could well lead to me getting into a situation where I am not going to stop when necessary.

I didn't want this habit to be the end of of me, so I have been in touch with the instructor, with whom I have spent quite a lot of time and have built up a good relationship, with a view to being taught how to brake properly. He, incidentally, is a purist, and has no time for linked braking systems.

Thanks for your advice Stinkwheel. I'm sure that being taught to brake properly will not only stop me from running into something, but also, in the long run, save me money.

Cheers

Tony
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Newbie in 2021 at 83. Now the proud holder of an A2 licence. That's far enough! Bikes: YSL 125, AJS Cadwell, Honda Rebel 500, Z300 (to get through A2 Mod 1), MT-07 (Restricted), Eliminator 500.

[Easy-X]

The front and back brakes on all bikes are linked... by the organic component in the middle Unless you have dexterity issues, e.g. arthritis, it just a question of practice.

TBH I recall when I did my training (on an MT-07) I managed to do the emergency stop exercise solely with the rear brake and without triggering the ABS. In case anyone's wondering how you could manage without the front one.
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Royal Enfield Continental GT 535, Husqvarna Vitpilen 401, Yamaha XSR700, Honda Rebel, Yamaha DT175, Suzuki SV650 (loan) Fazer 600, Keeway Superlight 125, 50cc turd scooter

[stinkwheel]

[Capt Sisko]

[quote="Easy-X" TBH I recall when I did my training (on an MT-07) I managed to do the emergency stop exercise solely with the rear brake and without triggering the ABS.[/quote]

Really! Your instructor needs sacking for allowing you to get away with doing that. It's not just bad practice, if you'd had a serious accident and it could be proved that if you'd used both brakes instead of just the rear (even allowing for linked brakes) that you would have stopped in time and not, say hit the person on the crossing, you're suddenly in a very bad place as far as the Law and insurance payouts go.

[Easy-X]

[Polarbear]

I've had many bikes with linked systems. Some with fancy percentage controlled applications that varied depending on the brake force used. (My Triumph Trophy and my 1800 Goldwing was similar) It didn't make any difference to me when I rode, I used the front brake 90% of the time and the rear just to steady the bike just like I would with a 'normal' system.

You will soon get the hand of a non linked system (or you will crash ) You won't. After a couple of hours you'll wonder what you were fussing about.
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Triumph Trophy Launch Edition

[that_impulse_guy]

this, taken to its natural conclusion was me and a m8 trying to work out why his sons new lexmoto chinese fairinged thing had such shit front brakes.

front lever only activated front brakes, and only one piston.
rear brakes activated rear brake, and the other front piston.

hence, stopping using front brake only was worse than using rear brake only.

how can this be a good idea is a mystery.
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Now: Suzuki GSX400X, Suzuki RF900R, NS400R

[MarJay]

I'm in a bit of a grumpy mood today, so I will caveat this entire post that you should keep this factor in mind when reading it.

It's a spectacularly dumb idea. I have had 35 bikes in the 26 years I've been riding and exactly one of them had linked brakes. It was a VFR800Fi from 2000. The brakes were the worst aspect of the bike. Not least because they were 3 piston sliding calipers in all 3 positions, but because one of those pistons was not engaged unless you braked using both master cylinders. It was a terrible pointless idea.

So, point number 1: Linked brakes are inferior to a decent normal braking setup. If they were better, they would have been widely adopted by manufacturers, most especially Honda who spent a bunch of money on R&D for their Dual CBS system. When they should have spent that money on suspension for the VFR - that was pretty crap too.

Point number 2: this follows on from point 1. Honda spent probably millions of dollars equivalent on R&D to get the balance of the combined braking system right. In spending this money, they didn't really improve anything, and probably had to spend a bunch of money so that the front did not lock up when engaging the rear for example. A bloke from the internet who doesn't even appreciate that a decent split braking system is absolutely fine for the road is not going to be able to come up with a superior or even equivalent solution and certainly not Dave from your local back street mechanic who can just about do valve clearances but wouldn't know a hydraulic calculation if it hit him over the head. This is not even considering (as others have mentioned) the specific hardware that Honda had to build in conjunction with Nissin, and the extra weight of the pipework, the extra teeny master cylinder that fits on the front fork etc etc.

Point number 3: Most modern bikes have fantastic intelligent ABS systems. This is now a legal requirement on new bikes, and has been well developed. It's designed to protect against the most hammy of fists controlling the vehicle. If your bike is recent, then it should be equipped with this, and on that basis I'd not give a crap about linking. Linking is a dead end, and has proven to be so. Even someone with the skill level of the forum legend Smiler (who reputedly crashed because of a crisp packet in his path) could handle a bike with normal split braking systems.

Plus, you've got an Eliminator 500, with a raked out geometry. It would not worry the flimsiest of rice pudding skins, and is hardly going to be cranked reet o'er at Cadwell Park. Most people who own this bike can ride it perfectly well without causing spectacular wreckage, and on that basis you can too. Training is probably the way forward. Using almost exclusively the rear brake is a very bad habit, and should be thrashed out of you forthwith, if you ever want to become a decent rider.

If not, maybe go and buy yourself one of those newfangled bikes with four wheels and a roof, that doesn't lean and has a 'wheel' instead of handlebars. They have linked brakes don't-you-know? They also have heating and a stereo too.

Right, that's warmed me up for my next rant, and that's this newfangled trend for trying to automate gearchanges on big bikes. Why try to remove one of the elements that makes riding fun i.e. learning the mastery of the machine? It baffles the mind. If you want to get there, go and buy a Tesla. If you want to have fun, ride a bike with gears and split brakes.
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Remember kids, bikes aren't like lego. You can't easily take a part from one bike and then fit it to another.