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| MattShill |
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 MattShill Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Karma :     
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 Posted: 16:43 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: Modding a CG - A Young Fool acts Young and Foolish |
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Following on from the 'derestricting an SR125' thread, I've been looking into the practice of 'jetting the carb up'. Now there's usually a fair amount of distain for any project involving the words 'improvement' and '125', but it's gonna be a while before I get it together to do my test, then get the cash together for a better bike, then get the cash together for insurance, so in the meantime I'm going to be riding a 'boring 125'. During that time I'd like it to be the least boring 'boring 125' it can be without resorting to screwing on bits of tat.
From what I've gathered you get a larger main jet and stick it in the carb. Will a larger one fit into the stock jet holder or would I have to replace the whole jet assembly? My manual says that my model has a '85' main jet (I think it reffers to mine, there are a few listed). 85 what? If this is indeed the value which wants increasing, what would be a good value to increase to? I'm assuming too big a jet would drown the engine and I can do that by leaving the choke on. Is it actually worth doing at all?
If that all goes well I'll have an engine running faster because it's getting more fuel. If it revs too highly the whole thing would be a waste, so would a larger front sprocket complement the new jet nicely?
These questions aren't really aimed at anyone, more of a description of the idea and the points which are confusing. I hardly know anything about all this as you can probably see, but there's the plan. Feel free to shoot it down, but give your reasons. Any advice would be great.
Matt. ____________________ Living life in the second overtaking lane!
'98 Kwak ER-5 |
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| EuropeanNC30R... |
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 EuropeanNC30R... Gay Hairdresser
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Karma :   
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 Posted: 17:18 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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If you're putting more fuel in, your gonna need more air to go with it. Got an old snorkel handy for the airbox/filter?
Then you'll be needing to get rid of these extra gases quicker - time to drill the baffles out of your exhaust.
Of course all this will probably cause your bike to run like a pile of shit and use more fuel for the sake of sod all extra performance. |
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| ts50x0 |
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 ts50x0 Spanner Monkey
Joined: 16 May 2004 Karma :  
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| ZaphodBeeble |
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 ZaphodBeeble World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 Feb 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 18:04 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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I agree with TS, don't bother doing anything to it. It really won't be worth your while. It's a lot of work for no real gain. On the other hand though, you might enjoy tinkering with it. It's obviously up to you but I wouldn't bother, I'd rather have it run smoothly and be reliable.  ____________________ Current bike: VTR1000F Firestorm. Previous: Firestorm (written off) - XJ600 Divvy - NSR125 - DT125 and a load of offroaders. |
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| Wave2k |
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 Wave2k G's Stalker

Joined: 06 Apr 2004 Karma :     
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| G |
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 G The Voice of Reason
Joined: 02 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 18:20 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Hi
For more performance you are not looking for more fuel to be burnt, you are looking for more air to go through and the right amount of fuel for the amount of air. Just sticking a larger main jet in will quite possibly loose you power.
Exhausts can help, but the silencer (the bit people change) is not really that important (although a bad design will loose you power. The length is important (and on multicyliner engines, the lengths until pipes from each cylinder join, and in what order they join). As a cooking analogy the silencer is the cherry on the top of the trifle, but it does no good at all if rotten fruit, lumpy custard and off cream was used.
One of the main things to improve an older or low performance 4 stroke would be to change the cam. Unfortunatly the CG uses a single cam for both the inlet and exhaust valve, just with 2 rockers mounted in different positions. Dirt cheap to make but a lousy idea for performance. Probably rather difficult to get any improvement at all, and very easy to loose power.
If you want more power from a CG I would suggest the first thing to do is to dump the standard engine and slot in one from the CB125S or older XL125. These were overhead cam engines and capable of producing rather more power (but also somewhat less reliable and requiring more frequent oil changes).
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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| mr.z |
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 mr.z World Chat Champion

Joined: 04 Feb 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 18:24 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Been there done that i'm affraid...
Theres NOTHING that can be done to the cg to make it go significantly faster without makeing explode in double quick time and looseing you allot of money in the meantime... it simply isn't sesigned for fast.
If you need to go faster then trade the cg in for a an nsr125, if its still not enough have someone help the restrictors fall out..
Theres aways the doing the test thing people tell you constantly, and i hate to tell ye but they are right
imo
spend money on das (and be a better rider too)
or a 2stroke sporty beast ____________________ >RidingSkills<->Tech Tips<->MyBikes< |
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| lilredmachine |
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 lilredmachine World Chat Champion

Joined: 24 Jan 2005 Karma :   
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 Posted: 18:26 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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You would notice a difference if you managed to get an old cb125 twin motor in it. That might be an idea if I get a bit of spare cash...  ____________________ Bikes: too many, too much for one man to maintain anyway. |
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| EuropeanNC30R... |
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 EuropeanNC30R... Gay Hairdresser
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Karma :   
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 Posted: 18:31 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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I found this story amusing a few years back when I was looking at 125's.
| UmgWeb.com wrote: | I wanted to go as fast as possible on my 1982 CG125. Don't laugh, when you're seventeen that's the thing most in your mind; especially when a lot of your mates have derestricted TZ125s.
First problem, I did not know a lot about engines. My mate told me leave out the head gasket and supplied some goo instead. He also set to the inlet and exhaust ports with a file, whilst I degutted the silencer. We visited a piston factor and spent half the morning trying to find something that would give higher compression. The piston we came away with looked very lumpy to me but seemed to fit okay.
My mate reassembled the engine, I flitted about hoping that I hadn't ruined the first big investment of my life - do you know how many paper rounds it takes to buy a CG, even an old one? When–I kicked the engine over it felt reassuringly hard. By the time it condescended to start I was drenched in sweat and not far short of tears!
My god, how could such a tiny engine produce such a terrible roar! My mate muttered something about having advanced the valve timing a notch. He had the first ride and pronounced that the carburation was too lean. A drill was taken to the main jet. Then it was my turn. I shot up the street, hanging on for dear life. It vibrated like a dodgy 747 just before take off but the speedo whizzed around to the stop and then immediately expired. My wrist watch stopped working. The cacophony of engine and exhaust noise had a pack of dogs descend upon me when I slowed for a junction. Dropping two gears and mercilessly throttling the engine saw me escape intact.
Examination of the engine mounting bolts revealed that one was not done up very tight. That done, the vibes diminished but were still much worse than stock. The engine had seemed very civilized when I first got the bike, but the power was very tame, even for a first timer like myself. Now, I had the power but at the price of needing to keep the revs always above 5000rpm and inflicting a terrible noise pollution upon the world.
The bike could still not keep up with the tuned two strokes. They reckoned that if I contorted myself over the tank, with my nose touching the clocks, I would extract a true 80mph out of it. That kind of speed was frightening because the bike wobbled and weaved all over the place. If I ever got ahead of my mates they would never dare pass unless there was at least a free lane between us.
The drum brakes were also piss poor at coping with rapid stops. They had been designed for some grandpa who would have an heart attack if he got the clock above 50mph. One hard stop and they gave up altogether. One time, a car cut me up when I was doing 70mph and I only missed his bumper by a fraction of an inch. My mates kept well away from me after that because of the pong of soiled underpants!
The bike had 33400 miles on the clock when I bought it. I did 2500 miles before tuning it up and then the engine lasted for only 3000 miles before the big crunch came. I was doing about 75mph with a pack of two stroke fanatics - if I went any slower I was relegated to the back and choked on two stroke fumes. We crested a hill and everyone went for it on the downhill stretch. God knows what engine revs I achieved but I could barely see and the bars felt like they were attached to a pile driver!
The engine locked up solid, the back tyre likewise, the bike slewing around, only avoiding doing a 360 degree turn because it hit one of the other bikes. Talk about highway carnage. At least half of the dozen bikes ended up on the tarmac. Amazingly, apart from my written off engine, damage to body and metal was minimal. The rear tyre was almost burnt down to a cinder and I was a trembling wreck.
Weird how things work out. The next day we were annoying the local breaker by hanging about his yard when I saw an old CB125 engine. This was the motor the CG was based upon, differing in having an OHC rather than OHV actuation of the valves. Surely, the CB engine would fit in the CG frame? I told the breaker a pack of lies about wanting to change my newish but slow engine for a CB motor, and probably just to get shot of us, he agreed to the swap if I gave him £20 as well.
Of course, the CB engine didn't fit straight in. Drills, welding gear and a big hammer were necessary accessories to the transplant. Learning from experience, I decided to leave this engine alone and satisfy my juvenile yearnings with just a straight through exhaust.
And it worked out quite well for the last 10,000 miles. The bike will do about 75mph flat out, 90mpg and has been remarkably reliable, if somewhat rattly. I also had a go at the cosmetics, frame and cycle parts painted a deep black. Looked at from a certain angle it seems almost classic in appearance and it's quite easy to convince myself that the looks will outlast things like RGs and TZRs. The chrome on the wheels, forks and shocks is a disaster, though.
Things like chains, tyres and brake shoes never needed replacing, so I can't really comment on consumables other than to say they are better than the strokers. Overall, the Honda had proved a good buy, was very easy to learn on (in stock tune) and extremely cheap to buy and run. True, the strokers are much easier to upgrade and just as reliable if you go for a modern one.
All good things come to an end, and after passing both my tests first time I was ready for something bigger and faster. Well, it had to be a Honda......a CD175, actually.
John Fraser |
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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 Posted: 18:34 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Hi
125 Superdream enigne will be barely any more powerful (and the extra weight would compensate for the extra power). The older pre Superdream twin would probably go in and would gain him about 50% more power, but the newest ones are over 20 years old, will have been thrashed to death, and it is hardly cheap when you need to change the carbs, exhausts, coils, etc as well.
XL185 engine might be fun .
All the best
Keith ____________________ Traxpics, track day and racing photographs - Bimota Forum - Bike performance / thrust graphs for choosing gearing |
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| mrchips |
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 mrchips World Chat Champion
Joined: 05 Mar 2004 Karma :     
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 Posted: 18:40 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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As the old saying goes, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" ____________________ Northern Irish? www.nibikers.com |
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| DM |
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 DM Scooby Slapper
Joined: 16 Oct 2004 Karma :  
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 Posted: 18:53 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Entertaining read, Maurice .
But alas, these guys are right. If you had a 2-stroke then your tuning options would be significantly higher, but a cg wasn't made for it. |
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| bish777 |
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 bish777 World Chat Champion

Joined: 11 Nov 2004 Karma :    
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| MattShill |
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 MattShill Nitrous Nuisance
Joined: 13 Mar 2005 Karma :     
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 Posted: 19:55 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Right, thanks everyone! I didn't think it would be that viable but I needed something to occupy my mind during study leave. Good story, maurice, and it goes to show I should leave well alone!
Maybe once I've got something else it might be worth having a mess about with, but for the time being I'll keep it roadworthy.
Another edit: This new engine business sounds like a bit of a lark though. I was considering getting a standard CG engine+gearbox anyway because of the wierd configuration of mine, so if I can get a bit more power as the same time without ruining the bike it's probably worth a look. I'll keep an eye open. ____________________ Living life in the second overtaking lane!
'98 Kwak ER-5 |
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| TheShaggyDA |
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 TheShaggyDA Repost Police

Joined: 14 Jun 2004 Karma :  
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| Milo |
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 Milo World Chat Champion

Joined: 08 Feb 2002 Karma :  
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| J.K.R |
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 J.K.R World Chat Champion

Joined: 06 Feb 2005 Karma :  
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 Posted: 22:31 - 15 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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The First bike i had was an XL125(rf - disk front brake) Stainless Straight through exhaust Sounded the nuts, went like the clappers (bearing in mind it was the first bike i had driven!) Choke had to be cable tied down (full throttle made it run like poo with the vibration)
Anyway, leave it as it is, clean it, polish it, cherish it, dont modify it (Unless needs be) Sell it buy bigger bike, tastefully modify it, clean it, polish it, cherish it, (keeps going on from here)
hth  ____________________ www.oldskoolsuzuki.info |
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| stevo as b4 |
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 stevo as b4 World Chat Champion
Joined: 17 Jul 2003 Karma :   
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 Posted: 19:36 - 16 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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The problem with a CG is that the brakes are pretty crap, and so more power would not be advised or safe really. Even 15bhp would be too much for the brakes to cope with.
As for engine swaps, well, like Keith said, the CB125T is a waste of time, although i like the CB125 twins themselves, especially when tuned to the same 16bhp as the older CB125 twins were.
The CB125J engine which is basically an OHC version of the CG is likely to fit, but its probably a bit taller, and with the hassle of moving/welding engine mounts, its still only 12-13bhp.
The XL185 would be interesting in a CG, but these engines wern't that robust, and are quite rare now i would think. |
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| mchaggis |
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 mchaggis World Chat Champion

Joined: 10 May 2004 Karma :    
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 Posted: 21:29 - 16 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Modifying your CG engine? Mine siezed today. Good luck.  ____________________ I must not be a troll...
Mmmm, Guinness
Discovering the delights of Hammerite and a 3/4" brush.  |
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| EuropeanNC30R... |
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 EuropeanNC30R... Gay Hairdresser
Joined: 20 Jun 2002 Karma :   
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 Posted: 10:33 - 17 Jun 2005 Post subject: |
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Old Thread Alert!
There is a gap of 4 years, 227 days between these two posts... |
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| Minithugg |
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 Minithugg Derestricted Danger

Joined: 29 Jan 2010 Karma :  
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| Darth |
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 Darth World Chat Champion

Joined: 15 Mar 2008 Karma :  
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 Posted: 22:22 - 29 Jan 2010 Post subject: |
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Seriously? 5 year old thread revival? That has to be near a record?? Did enjoy reading the post about the guy who tried modding the cg engine though  ____________________ Harold_Shand wrote: I suppose it's like anything, you get your fingers burned when you start out, you learn from it and eventually become a complete arsehole about the whole thing. |
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| MarJay |
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 MarJay But it's British!

Joined: 15 Sep 2003 Karma :     
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| Kickstart |
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 Kickstart The Oracle

Joined: 04 Feb 2002 Karma :     
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Old Thread Alert!
The last post was made 16 years, 247 days ago. Instead of replying here, would creating a new thread be more useful? |
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