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Why are speedos inaccurate?

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Kickstart
The Oracle



Joined: 04 Feb 2002
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PostPosted: 11:22 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
Do you by anychance have a copy of the construction and use regs that state this?


Not the actual regulations, but loads of references to it are around.

All the best

Keith
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 11:30 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I ask as last time I saw a COPY it stated accuracy within 10% not stating over or under reading.
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zx636
Scooby Slapper



Joined: 28 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: 12:11 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: speedos Reply with quote

How many of you guys constantly check your speed using the speedo.

I find i have a feel for how fast the bike is going and can more or less tell. Hard to explain but you feel the 30 40 and 50 speeds.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 13:19 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
I ask as last time I saw a COPY it stated accuracy within 10% not stating over or under reading.


Fair enough. From what I have heard that was the case until the early 1980s when it was changed to not being allowed to under read.

All the best

Keith
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 13:48 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Bit more of a search round and it seems we are both wrong.

The "Road Vehicles (Construction & Use) Regulations 1986" have now been amended by EC directives.

Found this that puts it into English.

Found this that has the revisions.

Some EU Document wrote:
2.3.7. the speed displayed must never be lower than the actual speed. Between speed V1, read on the speedometer and actual speed V2: there must be the following relationship with the test values specified in item 2.3.5 and between those values:

0 <= (V1 - V2) <= 0,1 · V2 + 4 km/h.


Some EU Document wrote:
Production models will be considered to meet the requirements of this Directive if, under the conditions referred to in items 2.3.1 to 2.3.6, the relationship between speed V1 read on the speedometer and actual speed V2 is as follows:

0 <= (V1 - V2) <= 0,1 · V2 + 4 km/h for mopeds,

and

0 <= (V1 - V2) <= 0,1 · V2 + 8 km/h for motorcycles and motor tricycles.


From that it seems that for production the speedo can read up to 10% over the speed plus 8kmh (5mph), but may not underread. So it seems that if you are doing 70mph the speedo may read anything from 70mph to 82mph (ie, 70mph + 5mph + another 10% of 70mph + 5mph).

All the best

Keith
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Rookie
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PostPosted: 14:18 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

That makes sense, it's probably government enforced, as then people can't use the excuse that their speedo was out, so they didn't know they were speeding. The other way though, and if they are caught speeding, it will be of a lower speed than they were caught doing anyway.
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lurker
Trackday Trickster



Joined: 19 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 15:13 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

sickpup wrote:
I ask as last time I saw a COPY it stated accuracy within 10% not stating over or under reading.


its definitely only over reading.
if youre really that interested im sure if you have a look on some uk govt sites you'll find it.
(i just cant be bothered)
otherwise you'd have the courts full of speeders contesting there speeding fines claiming manufacturers are at fault cause there speedo was inaccurate.
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lurker
Trackday Trickster



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PostPosted: 15:14 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

oops didnt read above replys b4 posting
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spakmitten
Renault 5 Driver



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PostPosted: 16:01 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh dear

cospirasy theroies debunked to the MAX

https://www.badastronomy.com/
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sickpup
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PostPosted: 16:38 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

lurker wrote:
otherwise you'd have the courts full of speeders contesting there speeding fines claiming manufacturers are at fault cause there speedo was inaccurate.


Not quite. Speeding is an 'Absolute offence' if I remember correctly so even an under reading speedo is no defence.

Thanks for that Keith. The last time I took interest in the regs was about 10 or so years ago, a friends Dad was the head of technical over at the RMI and wrote some of the regs about lighting so was using him to sort some grey imports we had problems with. It was he that told me about the speedos being 10% out and it supposed to be over-reading but not illegal for them to under read.

Wasn't there a recall earlier tis year on one of the CBR's for under reading speedo's?

Lets not forget that bikes like CBR400's ZXR400's ETC or all small japanese grey imports were never homologated for use within europe and the UK s.
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 17:25 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Maybe I am cynical, but the speedo is one of the cheapest devices to "tune" to make a bike seem faster.

How many manufacturers are going to spend large amounts of money making the speedo more accurate when the only effect is to make people think there bikes are slower.

All the best

Keith
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Villers
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PostPosted: 17:57 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

My mate has been playing round with his GPS which can now read accelleration in feet per second etc and he done a 102 on his ZX6r and the GPS recorded 108. Does this make his bike illegal, innacurate or is the GPS innacurate?
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Kickstart
The Oracle



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PostPosted: 18:01 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Depends how many satellites it was reading at that moment. They can be fairly inaccurate and jump around.

All the best

Keith
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ali-b
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 10 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Villers wrote:
My mate has been playing round with his GPS which can now read accelleration in feet per second etc and he done a 102 on his ZX6r and the GPS recorded 108. Does this make his bike illegal, innacurate or is the GPS innacurate?


Depends on a number of factors, how many satellites it had a view of and if your mate was accelerating or decelerating. Generally a GPS system will be far more accurate at reading a constant speed, but depending on the GPS system's pulse (when it reads position from the satellites) will depend on how accurate it is while changing speed. Some cheap GPS systems only read every couple of seconds to save power, others read every tenth of a second.

HTH

Alex.

[edit] - I'm drunk and have used the word 'depending' far too many times Very Happy sorry
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pipnet11
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PostPosted: 00:49 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah but at least if you stay at a constant speed your speedos stay a constant speed. Old Smiths speedos, and even the new Enfield speedos will wobble about all over the place. They seem to simply estimate what speed you are going!
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freestyler_onli
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PostPosted: 02:57 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate innaccurate speedos. It looks so much bigger when you wear bermuda shorts.............. Shocked
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kal9001
Trackday Trickster



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PostPosted: 11:27 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can you get a GPS speedo...i dont want any of the map bollox just a small unit that JUST READS SPEED on a digital output...then you know how fast your going...would be cool...
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 15:30 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rookie_biker wrote:
Yamaha and Honda don't have the technology that NASA do? And rockets don't require speedos? Wink


I'd say Honda have just as much - NASA can't make a robot that plays football or climbs stairs.

It doesn't really cost much to produce an accurate speedo - a light gate on the fronk programmed with the overall wheel diameter, distance between spokes, and spoke width would be accurate, but as someone rightly said, it's all about cost. If you're really that bothered about an accurate speedo - go buy one - i'm sure there are some out there that would be less than 3%off, if that.

Jack
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bigdazz
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PostPosted: 15:55 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think manufacturers take the cautios approach if you got nicked for speeding on a new bike for say 5 mph over the limit and found the speedo to be underreading you would have a good case for compensation from the manufacturers, so they calibrate them to be slightly over to allow for this.
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Jack_Cheese
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PostPosted: 18:41 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

To be honest, i think having speed limits strictly enforced is a bad idea. If people are looking at their speedos, it's a fairly safe bet that they're not looking at the road. The police round here don't really care about much, whilst riding at the speed limit, a police car overtook me with no sirens or lights, and im sure thats against the law. Maybe the oracle could shed some light on that one.

Jack
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marc_yorks
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PostPosted: 22:01 - 11 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

buy a mille
the most accurate speedo's ever Thumbs Up
was chasing my mate on his zx9r the other day,we were near enough level,his speedo was saying 165,mine 151 Exclamation
we were on private roads of course
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kal9001
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PostPosted: 02:03 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

i agree, takeing serious action for someone whos doing 35 in a 30 just cos hes not being osbessive about his speed, and constantley looking and jabbing the brakes on, wich im sure is annother major cause of accidents, oooocrap im 5mph above the speedlimit after that lil hill :jabbs brakes on: smash driver behind "WTF are you doing stoopid cunt!"
i have allwasy said speed limits shoul dbe a guide, and if people arent reponcible enough to take that on board and ride/drive to the conditions then thats their problem and then they get the book! but in places 80 is more then acceptable in a 60...and 60 is no more dangerous in 30 zones...as im sure alot of people will agree here its the road conditions that judge the speed, not the sily signs, i can be doing 30 in a 40 and still be an asshole...
it seems that the DVAL/DSA and the goventment/police are trying to eliminate all thaught from driveing...you WILL DO the limit, notunder or over, you WILL mindlessley follow road sighns even those that tell you to do 3MPH round the "bad" corner that a robin reliant could do 90 around!

people do seem to think less these days while driveing...people who just drive at 40 anywhere, cos they are too lazy to adjust their driving to the given limit...anddo40soitall averages out in the end Rolling Eyes or who NEVER indicate, or only do so after they are already half way into the corner...ifpeople just started to think more and PAY ATTENTION thenthere would be alot less accidents...

alsoifpeople just paid abitmore consideration to other people in any situation then our daily lives would be much better, and we would progress as a society...
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Jamie_ducati
Scooby Slapper



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PostPosted: 02:18 - 12 Sep 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

mass production techniques and lack of regular calibration. Police vehicles have expensive and regularly calibrated speedos.

if you know where your "local mile" is (used by Police to double check) you can ride that mile at 60mph in exactly 60 seconds...
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