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Have you gone from a 4 Cylinder to a V Twin?

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PostPosted: 21:03 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Have you gone from a 4 Cylinder to a V Twin? Reply with quote

Have you gone from a screaming four to a booming V twin? Or the other way round?

What did you like/dislike about the two engines?

I know the fours are generally peaky and the twins have a lot of low down grunt but I would like to hear you experiences of the two.

Cheers
Joe
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2strokenut
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PostPosted: 21:17 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: twin? Reply with quote

recently had 250 rebel(not much power anyway) now have a yamaha maxim 700cc 4 cylinder Shocked like a bloody race bike!! still a cruiser but does 0-60 in 3.2secs Sick bit mad but super bike
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PostPosted: 21:55 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

C'mon must be a few of you out there tearing about on V twins...
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Davo
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PostPosted: 22:04 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

G has.

He's gone from an R6 to an SV650 for his race bike.
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Cillit-BANG
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PostPosted: 22:06 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

V-twin Duke, but have limited experience on in-line 4's.

I love my Duke. Low down grunt feels awesome and most noticable when kicked into top (5th), there is a massive surve of power.

It's only a 750 sport, but has as much torque as bhp Thumbs Up

I certainly find it an involving ride. Sundays blast, I had the wind behind me, and all I could hear was a lovely Ducati rumble, and I havn't got my race-pipes yet Smile
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DucatiEVO
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PostPosted: 22:13 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I run both ends of the spectrum (998RS + CBR1000RR). Both completely different rides.

The Duc is very punchy and gives that ' Shocked ' feeling when you crank the throttle at any point. Where the Blade has the power but still needs to be worked to give you the buzz, it doesn't have the initial 'oooh' factor of the Duc.

The Duc SUCKS in traffic, the on/off delivery is annoying through town. The Blade is a lot smoother to ride in traffic.

If I had to choose between the bikes (and assuming both were bone stock), I'd probably shy to the Blade because it's a better all rounder and it's probably a lot more reliable! Smile
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PostPosted: 22:15 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

DucatiEVO, what would you rather ride on a 150 mile Sunday blast?
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 22:16 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ride an SV650s.

I've only riden a few times on an inline 4's so can't compare properly, but I found IL4's to be to buzzy. I prefer the power further down for better acceleration out of bends, the lower deeper engine noise and the total lack of vibration of a (90 degree) V-twin. ultimately I prefer not having to change gear as much Thumbs Up
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DucatiEVO
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PostPosted: 22:26 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe - have to be the Blade mate.
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Bendy
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PostPosted: 22:35 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

I rode the CBR and an SV back to back at Lydden on Saturday.

I think the 'bottom end grunt' thing is a bit of a myth, the SV really didn't seem to pull any better than the Ceeb at the bottom end of the rev range. It lacked the top end kick that the CBR has, and as you run out of revs sooner you have to change gear more.

Quite liked it though, just as something a bit different. Different noise, different feel.

I could make more sense of a twin on the road than on the track, I'm not one for revving the shit out of my bike in day to day a to b riding, so I'd happily burble around sounding like a tractor most of the time. But I think I'd miss having that top end kick up the arse to go and play with when I felt like it.

Admittedly, it's not the best comparison, should really compare a bigger twin with a smaller four but it's the best I can come up with. Smile
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G
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PostPosted: 22:36 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Joe wrote:
Have you gone from a screaming four to a booming V twin? Or the other way round?

I read that as 'borring V twin, which amused me as that's how I feel them.

At the moment, I own:
r6 track bike (four)
zx9 not been used for a while (four)
SV race bike (twin)
TRX850 road bike (twin)
Aprilia RS250 road bike (twin)

For a start, a bike's engine is going to be designed to work a specific way.

Often 4 cylinder bikes have more midrange and top end than twins, what ever people think. While twins may have a tad more low down power, this usually doesn't account for the fact that they don't rev as high, so while it's up to 3.5k or whatever, that's a third of the total rev range rather than a quarter.

This is a power/toruqe graph from an sp1/2 and R1 overlaid and matched:
https://www.bikechatforums.com/download.php?id=1937
The blue bit is where the twin has more torque, the red where the four has more torque.

Sports twins often feel very 'lumpy' low down, meaning that you don't want to use it anyway.
What did you like/dislike about the two engines?

In comparison to my R6, the SV has a relatively flat power delivery, however it does make less power lower down, meaning that to be really on the boil you have to be in the right gear anyway.
There is less of a difference, but we should remember that the SV has 50cc more, but makes 30hp less.


For actual riding, I personally find twins a bit 'boring'. While the four wants to be revved and you can feel significant differences between pushing it and not, it's often not so significant on the road, making riding a less fulfilling experience.

Riding a litre twin (firestorm) back to back with me zx6r of the time I found that the twin actually felt slower. It was actually faster in a straight line, but the feeling was that you were going slower.
I suspect the sound is part of it, but also that you don't have to work it quite as much.


The RS250 is obviosuly designed to be very revvy, though a twin.

The R6 has actually got an acceptable midrange, but relly takes off when you get to the high revs.

The ZX9 has a very linear power delivery after the fueling problems at 4k rpm - however when it hits 9-10k it really flys and the difference is noticeable. (The zx9 is a bit tuned, with a dyno graph to show 143hp at the rear wheel.

The SV650 has a fairly linear power deliver, though I haven't really tried to ride it slowly as it's a track bike. It does seem to pull fairly well from low down. (It's tuned to some degree, producing 72hp peak powerat the rear wheel, the limit for the series I'm racing.)

The TRX850 actually has a bit of a 'powerband' - upto 4k rpm it's a bit lump and slow, but carrying on to the 8k rpm redline there's a nice bulge, though it's still fairly flat.

I like the feeling I get from riding the RS250 when everything's going right. It feels you're going fast as the engine's revvying and you're trying quite hard, while your actual speed isn't that hard.
In comparison, a big twin four stroke makes it feel like you're going a lot slower when you may be going relatively faster.

Generally, when you compare a similar capacity four cylinder bike (similar style as well) to a twin, you will find that the four cylinder isn't really lacking much on midrange.
However it makes a load more top end, this usually means that it feels like the midrange is lacking in comparison.
To me it, usually feels that just as the engine is about to get to the fun bit, it dies instead. Cad ride a four just on the midrange, but you still have the option of the fun when you turn the throttle Smile.
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G
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PostPosted: 22:40 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

DucatiEVO:
To be fair, the CBR is known as relatively 'docile' compared to the competition, while your 998 is a relatively aggresively focused twin.
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 22:44 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bendy wrote:
I rode the CBR and an SV back to back at Lydden on Saturday.

I think the 'bottom end grunt' thing is a bit of a myth, the SV really didn't seem to pull any better than the Ceeb at the bottom end of the rev range. It lacked the top end kick that the CBR has, and as you run out of revs sooner you have to change gear more.

Quite liked it though, just as something a bit different. Different noise, different feel.

I could make more sense of a twin on the road than on the track, I'm not one for revving the shit out of my bike in day to day a to b riding, so I'd happily burble around sounding like a tractor most of the time. But I think I'd miss having that top end kick up the arse to go and play with when I felt like it.

Admittedly, it's not the best comparison, should really compare a bigger twin with a smaller four but it's the best I can come up with. Smile


As you say, its not a very fair comparison. Ultimately the SV is a road bike, not a track bike. It has no more torque low down than a 600 IL4 and never claims it has more either so it won't be any better on acceleration. But remember it is also 5 groups down on insurance Wink so in my view it's quite a well kept secret - you get 600 IL4 acceleration that won't leave you behind, yet the lack of top end above 130mph to keep your licence Thumbs Up
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PostPosted: 22:45 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks guys Thumbs Up Thumbs Up

I'm thinking of going from a CBR600 to a Honda SP2. I just love that V twin sound - but not enough as to rate that above the enjoyment of the actual ride (pretty obvious).

I think maybe going up to a litre from a 600 will help keep the excitement, and I'm getting a bit older now Wink and think I might enjoy not revving the tits off a bike all the time.

I think the only way to find out really is to get a test ride...
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DucatiEVO
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PostPosted: 22:47 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
DucatiEVO:
To be fair, the CBR is known as relatively 'docile' compared to the competition, while your 998 is a relatively aggresively focused twin.


I know, hence the reason I mentioned the choice would be if both bikes were 'stock'. My Duc isn't and puts down just over 142 horses at the wheel, it's also a lot lighter than standard and hence the Shocked factor when you pop the throttle Wink
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G
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PostPosted: 22:49 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, the SV was a track bike, tuned for race use with race suspension Wink.

The CBR was a standard road bike, only mod being an end can and downgeared I believe.

A 600 four will out accelerate a SV650 at any decent speed. In the end most bikes will accelerate the same, just the lower the cc the lower speed this acceleration is limited to.

Comparing the SV to a 400 sports bike is perhaps a fairer comparison. For the road, I may well choose the SV over a 400, as I like the option of being lazy on the road and bad things happen if I'm tempted by a revvy engine that wants to go faster.
However for 'fun' I would choose the 400 (or an rs250 Wink ) everytime.

Joe:
I went up to a tuned downgeared zx9 from a zx6. To be honest it didn't actually excite me that much, it's just that it accelerates more at highspeeds. Also nice that you can be lazy, if you want easy speed.
Also ridden a busa in the past and wasn't really that impressed.

Trackdays (and now racing) I still find fun though, even on a twin!
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cc123
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PostPosted: 23:05 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

G, do you still have this mythical ZX9R!? Heard you mention it a few times, I get the impression its been binned and you can't be arsed fixing it, dunno why??? Confused I'm probably totally wrong?
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mchaggis
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PostPosted: 23:07 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Four cylinders arranged in a line does sound a bit boring imo. A nice V or odd firing order gives things a fair bit more character. However, the front of an I4 engine looks much more attractive than that of a 90 degree V-twin. The single exhaust pipe hanging right out in the open air looks dreadful.
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G
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PostPosted: 23:14 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

cc123 wrote:
G, do you still have this mythical ZX9R!? Heard you mention it a few times, I get the impression its been binned and you can't be arsed fixing it, dunno why??? Confused
I do.
I bought it pre-crashed. Worse I've done is drop it while trying a donut, no damage.

It has a dodgy third gear, and more importantly needs fork seals, seats and front lights doing for MOT.

Do want to sort it, but lots of other things to sort as well - so you're half right Smile.
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 23:15 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgot to mention i already have an Inline 4...... it's in my car so why would i want another?? Inline 4's belong in cars, so leave them there Laughing

I know I'll get flamed for this but i've yet to get negative karma...... Wink
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Collier
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PostPosted: 23:22 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep;

MT5
NSR 125
RGV 250
Bandit 400
ZXR 400
ZXR 750
R6
ZX7R
Firestorm
Mille

Love the torque of the twins, miss the noise of the IL4's....

Smile
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G
The Voice of Reason



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PostPosted: 23:24 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

extreme3d wrote:
Inline 4's belong in cars, so leave them there Laughing

Because they rev twice as high in the bikes?

And because a bike twin engine actually is more similar to a car engine. Not only in size of the cylinders, but also the power delivery.

Great for a car to get the shopping in, not so good for bikes Razz.


Also, collier, have you tried an litre class 4s? These have the torque of the big twins and power to go with (see graph above Smile ).
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extreme3d
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PostPosted: 23:27 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was no need to take me seriously.... Rolling Eyes
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mistergixer
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

When it comes to a four stroke bike engine, my heart lies with an inline 4.
IMHO, twins sound rough and agricultural; whereas the banshee wail of a four on full chat sounds like a dive bomber or a jet fighter.
Repeat after me: I am not a rider, i am a test pilot.
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G
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PostPosted: 23:29 - 17 Oct 2005    Post subject: Reply with quote

There was no need to take me seriously either Wink.
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